Epilogue: The Sound of Time

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown

Re: so what would you do?

Postby Mikado14 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:02 am

FM No Static At All wrote:
Mikado14 wrote:What secrets are you referring to? Oh, but then if you know then they are not secrets anymore. How do I word this........

Ok, what initiates are you referring to or do you have these secrets and can you answer a yes or no without breaking an oath?


Although discovered many years ago, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not widely known to the general public. The Fatima secrets have yet to be publicized. The FACT that UFO's exist, and that there is life beyond our terrestrial boundaries is fact. But regardless of how many eyewitness accounts, it still remains hidden. Yes, I am a witness of several sightings and have "knowledge" that is not widely known. Why? Well, because "they" don't think that humanity can handle it.

The Dead Sea Scrolls would qualify as "millenia" but as far as secret, from my perspective, the jury is still out. The Fatima secrets are only about a century and are not millenia and as far as UFO's go you say they are fact because of knowledge that only you have here at this table and guess what? appears your not saying either.

Mikado14 wrote:Let me start over, how is it that you are aware of "secrets" being passed down through the millenia? Without breaking any vows if any.

My curiosity is piqued in that you can state that with any fact.

Mikado

Fact? Facts do not mean much when we have politics to contend with. Why are we driving gas guzzling, polluting vehicles when electric is clean, more efficient and much lower costs to maintain? Because the oil industry and power utilities spread FUD. Just as Microsoft has done for years. Fear, uncertainty, doubt, for those who are not familiar with this term.

Why is it that we give people poisons (drugs) that alleviate symptoms but do not eradicate disease? The AMA and FDA are lobbying to restrict the use of natural supplements stating emphatically that only drugs cure, yet cancer has not been cured by drugs. We are brainwashed into believing that our best interests are at stake, when it is the profits that motivate the health care industry.

There are obvious reasons to keep some technologies hidden for real security concerns. I can only imagine Iran with technology to create weapons of mass destruction, and perhaps such technological knowledge while capable of benevolent use can enrich the lives of millions, just like nuclear energy it can also be the downfall of life on the planet.

You have me lost on your last three paragraphs. I asked for facts and instead you have given questions. Ok, I'll accept questions as an answer if that is all I can get but as someone once said on the forum, he who answers with a question doesn't have any answers to give. I suppose there are only secrets.

Hence the expression, "If I tell you, I'll have to kill you" is borne not so much as a threat to the individual, but as a broader warning that such knowledge can kill us all.

Perhaps "secret" is not the proper term. I prefer "privileged" instead. There are those who feel that they are privileged to have certain knowledge and do not share it openly because...well there are to use your personal signature "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

So I ask again, you and to all others that it applies to:

WHAT ARE YOU PRETENDING NOT TO KNOW?

You are correct, I am pretending not to know a lot for I see so much misuse of technological terms and misunderstanding of the current science but it does work and function. I see individuals misuse of the terms Biefeld-Brown effect, Electrohydrodynamics, Magnetohydrodynamics, Electrogravitics, Magnetogravitics, Fluid dynamics and just plain old basic science. Do I have all the answers, hell no, but I have built my fair share of machines, spent my fair share of hard earned money. I have seen my discs fly around a maypole and give off a beautiful corona glow and discharge. I have watched a Magnetoelectric motor operate for more than a week putting out more from a Delcotron alternator than it consummed. And all that was 30 years ago. And if I do anything ever again I expect to and will be compensated along the way with enough so that I don't have to worry where my next meal is coming from and I will see to it that if anyone is by my side they too will equally, notice the operative word there - equally, be rewarded as I. Does any of this have anything to do with secrets? Yes, my secrets, and I will continue to pretend for it is so much fun at the present.

Fred
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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Postby Chris Knight » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:24 am

I haven't had time over the past few days to jump in, but I'd like to take a stab at electrical vehicles - the common misconception that electrical cars are environmentally friendly and "clean".

Electricity, like any form of power - gasoline, coal, ethanol, etc. has to be processed into a usable form from some source. Wind and solar power is a great source of energy - some day. I think the official goal right now is 10% renewable energy by 2020 (biomass, solar, wind, geothermal).

Plug your electric car into an outlet, and chances are pretty good that the electricity is coming from some coal burning plant (~52%), nuclear power plant (~20%), natural gas burning plant (~16%), or petroleum burning plant (3%). (2000 data - admitedly a bit dated).

In addition, these plants aren't going to be in downtown Santa Monica or Wall Street. They're going to be in areas generally depressed that are either unable to get the plants out of their back yard, or willing to put themselves at risk for the financial rewards. The Appalacian Valley is a good example of that.

So, while hybrids seem like a great idea - admitedly they use less gasoline, which is expensive, they really just move the pollution around.

What is required is a paradigm shift - an entirely different perspective of the nuts and bolts of the universe. I mean, sure, burning stuff up to get electricity is neat, but really, what do you do when you've used everything up ?
Andrew
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And theer you go, where ever you are

Postby FM No Static At All » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:26 am

Mikado14 wrote:You are correct, I am pretending not to know a lot for I see so much misuse of technological terms and misunderstanding of the current science but it does work and function. I see individuals misuse of the terms Biefeld-Brown effect, Electrohydrodynamics, Magnetohydrodynamics, Electrogravitics, Magnetogravitics, Fluid dynamics and just plain old basic science. Do I have all the answers, hell no, but I have built my fair share of machines, spent my fair share of hard earned money. I have seen my discs fly around a maypole and give off a beautiful corona glow and discharge. I have watched a Magnetoelectric motor operate for more than a week putting out more from a Delcotron alternator than it consummed. And all that was 30 years ago. And if I do anything ever again I expect to and will be compensated along the way with enough so that I don't have to worry where my next meal is coming from and I will see to it that if anyone is by my side they too will equally, notice the operative word there - equally, be rewarded as I. Does any of this have anything to do with secrets? Yes, my secrets, and I will continue to pretend for it is so much fun at the present.


Thank you, you gave the answer I intuitively felt about you. I know you are not on a fishing trip, and I too have my reasons for keeping my cards close to the chest. And that my good man does not make you a bad person for sure. As I said, I do want to be compensated for my efforts so that food, shelter, clothing, and an occasional trip to get a Philly Cheesesteak is not a major undertaking. But I also have my own personal eithics about what I am willing to do, and I will do nothing if it means my actions is to towards the detriment of others.
Chris Knight wrote:Electricity, like any form of power - gasoline, coal, ethanol, etc. has to be processed into a usable form from some source. Wind and solar power is a great source of energy - some day. I think the official goal right now is 10% renewable energy by 2020 (biomass, solar, wind, geothermal).

Plug your electric car into an outlet, and chances are pretty good that the electricity is coming from some coal burning plant (~52%), nuclear power plant (~20%), natural gas burning plant (~16%), or petroleum burning plant (3%). (2000 data - admitedly a bit dated).

In addition, these plants aren't going to be in downtown Santa Monica or Wall Street. They're going to be in areas generally depressed that are either unable to get the plants out of their back yard, or willing to put themselves at risk for the financial rewards. The Appalacian Valley is a good example of that.

So, while hybrids seem like a great idea - admitedly they use less gasoline, which is expensive, they really just move the pollution around.

Electric drive and hybrids as they are constructed today are neither true electric or environmentally friendly. And as far as energy coming from burning something, that is the thinking that put us in this mess to begin with. You do not have to destroy something to get energy. Moray learned it, Tesla knew it and proved it. and profit making beat them both down. just as it did the electric car.
If wind and sun were combined, with safe battery technology in stead of toxic manufacturing and disposal, it would surely be a viable alternative to burning. And even until the sustainable infrastructure is in place, the hybrids today do not exploit the power and torque of the electric motor. Even the Tesla Roadster (no offense to Nikola) while using an AC motor, must convert DC from batteries to produce AC, and that is inefficient. Why not use battery power to provide alternator spin, and use AC current to provide the energy directly? With small wind turbines that maximize efficient vortex energy to provide DC generation for battery recharging. Solar cells and regenerative braking too.

Small vertical turbines along the nation's interstate highways can provide energy at rest area recharge stations and information/warning displays which many are using solar alone now. Many new building are being designed to utilize wind as there is plenty of turbulence within the canyons of skyscraper mountains. City parking can recharge electric vehicles too.
Transmit that electric wirelessly right into the vehicles and charge a toll for it. Don't say this won't work or that won't work, because that is FUD. That is exactly why we are in this economic/energy dilemma. Until we can truly tap the aether for power, use all of the alternatives in harmony instead of providing more excuses for big oil and big power. If every home used wind and sun with adequate battery storage there would be a surplus of energy, and it can replace all of the fuel burning sources. And before you say a word about the hazardous batteries, use silicone salt batteries that are eco-friendly to produce and recycle.

So there I gave up all of the "secrets" of how to topple oil terrorists and free us from the bonds of energy slavery. Now, go out unto the peoples of the world and tell them of the new energy paradigm, build it, use it, and ignore the old paradigm. Put positive energy in moving forward and the old beast will just disappear. Guess I better look over my shoulder because "they" are sure to be looking for this trouble maker!

Fred
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Postby kevin.b » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:27 am

I had a fabulous talk yesterday with several youngsters, all around twenty years old.
They are ever so bright and willing to listen.
As soon as I mentioned that time may not be the linear constant we have been repeatedly TOLD it is, they got it by themselves, they started talking about time as a river, and that the river may at certain conditions dry up or flood, run at a trickle or flash past.
They were putting me right on maths and complex geometry, they loved it and so did I.
It is their world , their resposibilty to ensure its safety and future.
All anyone can do is ensure in their own way that the fences keeping the big bad wolf out are sound, then its up to the youths to take over, if not the fences will collapse and you and the youths will be eaten by the big bad wolf.
They are far more savvy than my generation , all of this computer and digital stuff has fast forwarded them amazingly.
We may not have been able to fully handle the shock of tremendous change, they seem hungry for that change.
kevin
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Trust

Postby Griffin » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:47 am

Yes, Raymond, I would intuitively trust you to do the right thing. Trust is crucial in any enterprise, IMO.

I would like to propose another take on Gort. Since he comes to us through the Hollywood Dream Factory, let's consider treating this technological marvel as a figure in our own dream. We can certainly consider Gort as a definitely threatening, external figure or force. The military in the movie saw Gort as a threat and an enemy. But taking the Gestalt or existential point of view, let's consider our dream Gort as part of us. We are our own worst threat. Pogo had it right: "We has met the enemy and he is us!" Let's make it a lucid dream that we may edit. Then, when the visor raises, it's not to destroy anything with an advanced technology but only to see clearly and rightly. This, IMO, is what the group I call the Visitants want us all to do. There are no external threats involved from them. Remember, they know all they need to know about us -- and they still want to help.

As ever,

Griffin
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Re: And theer you go, where ever you are

Postby greggvizza » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:13 pm

FM No Static At All wrote:Even the Tesla Roadster (no offense to Nikola) while using an AC motor, must convert DC from batteries to produce AC, and that is inefficient. Why not use battery power to provide alternator spin, and use AC current to provide the energy directly?


I am going to jump in here before Mikado sees this and gets all upset. By what means does battery power produce alternator spin? Do you connect the batteries to a DC motor that spins the alternator that in turn generates AC? Every conversion is a loss due to inefficiencies. If we keep leaving these inefficiencies out, Mikado is going to burn his physics book. It would be more efficient, in the scenario that you are describing, to just power the wheels with the DC motor and forget all the DC to AC conversion. Besides DC motors have more torque than AC motors. Don’t you want to be able to lay rubber?

GV
Last edited by greggvizza on Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: And theer you go, where ever you are

Postby Mikado14 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:44 pm

greggvizza wrote:
FM No Static At All wrote:Even the Tesla Roadster (no offense to Nikola) while using an AC motor, must convert DC from batteries to produce AC, and that is inefficient. Why not use battery power to provide alternator spin, and use AC current to provide the energy directly?


I am going to jump in here before Mikado see this and get all upset. By what means does battery power produce alternator spin? Do you connect the batteries to a DC motor that spins the alternator that in turn generates AC? Every conversion is a loss due to inefficiencies. If we keep leaving these inefficiencies out, Mikado is going to burn his physics book. It would be more efficient, in the scenario that you are describing, to just power the wheels with the DC motor and forget all the DC to AC conversion. Besides DC motors have more torque than AC motors. Don’t you want to be able to lay rubber?

GV


Well, I didn't burn it just yet, it was a cloudy day and the sun was inefficient.....bad word, nobody uses it....REDO!

Well, I didn't burn it just yet, it was a cloudy day and the sun was not shining through the clouds very well so I just put the magnifying glass away.


BUT, someone told me about a new technology....Flint!

Mikado
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Re: And theer you go, where ever you are

Postby FM No Static At All » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:52 pm

greggvizza wrote:
FM No Static At All wrote:Even the Tesla Roadster (no offense to Nikola) while using an AC motor, must convert DC from batteries to produce AC, and that is inefficient. Why not use battery power to provide alternator spin, and use AC current to provide the energy directly?


I am going to jump in here before Mikado see this and get all upset. By what means does battery power produce alternator spin? Do you connect the batteries to a DC motor that spins the alternator that in turn generates AC? Every conversion is a loss due to inefficiencies. If we keep leaving these inefficiencies out, Mikado is going to burn his physics book. It would be more efficient, in the scenario that you are describing, to just power the wheels with the DC motor and forget all the DC to AC conversion. Besides DC motors have more torque than AC motors. Don’t you want to be able to lay rubber?

GV


You are right. Using small DC motors would make more sense. No conversion required. And use them at each wheel so in addition to all wheel drive when needed, each can be small enough so that they aren't energy pigs. See, that is what I was talking about when I addressed Andrew. Focus on what works, instead of why something doesn't.

Mr. Mikado, you are sounding more like Groucho. At first I was shocked when you said burn the book. Whenever I hear or see books burning I immediately go to Nazi Germany. I do get where you are coming from though.

On another note, I watched The Universe on the History Channel last night, and they were talking about the Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Rip. They spoke of first and second laws of thermodynamics and how as the Universe expands there will be less heat and they made reference to Norse beliefs that the end of the world will be ice, frozen and contrary to the Armageddon "fire and brimstone" prophecies of the Bible. I waited and waited until the credits rolled and the promo for what was up next, and did not hear one word about electromagnetism mentioned. Everything was based on thermodynamics. It struck me as odd, because it was as if thermodynamics is a fundamental energy, created in the big explosion which I still cannot seem to get. It strikes me that science as it is today, has become like the medical profession. I posted the "modern" version of the Hippocratic Oath which clearly demonstrates my point. Science has taken a similar path. No longer is real pioneering tolerated when it challenges the dogma of those scholars and Nobel laureates.

Dr. Brown knew this well. He experienced such resistance to his theories, and left school to pursue them. Physics certainly has come a long way but it also has become a religion that is as intolerant as the Church, especially the inquisition of peer review, where the holy fathers of science decide your academic fate.

Physician heal thyself

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hungry for change

Postby twigsnapper » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:29 pm

Kevin,

You said it all, speaking about the youngsters coming up. See the rider on the hill with the banner, He circles it once, high overhead ....... for the past .... again, as his grey horse dances in the sand .... for the present .... and again, with a flourish .... for the future .... and then ....... as the vision was told to me ... he looks directly at the observer and points the banner to the horizon .... and Dr. Browns words GO FORTH!

"They were putting me right on maths and complex geometry, they loved it and so did I.
It is their world , their resposibilty to ensure its safety and future.
All anyone can do is ensure in their own way that the fences keeping the big bad wolf out are sound, then its up to the youths to take over, if not the fences will collapse and you and the youths will be eaten by the big bad wolf.
They are far more savvy than my generation , all of this computer and digital stuff has fast forwarded them amazingly.
We may not have been able to fully handle the shock of tremendous change, they seem hungry for that change."

HUNGRY AND READY. GO FORTH. twigsnapper
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Postby kevin.b » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:20 pm

Mr twigsnapper, Sir,
You have a rare way with words, I could SEE the grey mare , and its rider with banner.

Heres a quote from another son of the emerald Isle.

I want to work with the top people,because only they have the courage and the confidence and the risk seeking profile that you need.
James Joyce

I know I can speak for all upon here , that with your presence now and in the past, we have and are working with one of the top people, namely thee.
Whoever thee pretend to be.
We will go forth Sir, boldly
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Re-Joyce!

Postby Griffin » Thu May 01, 2008 12:12 pm

Yes, Kevin-

An excellent quote from James A.A. Joyce.

Life is risk, and if you’re willing to perhaps take some more extraordinary risks you want trusted top-notch support whenever possible. Lots of people have considered themselves brave, including Nazis and terrorists. But “brave” may actually be bravado, performed with a dark and deadened heart. True courage is connected with an enlivened and in some cases even enlightened heart. I think Joyce used his words quite carefully, despite what some literary critics might think.

Joyce was often intoxicated, literally and otherwise. Although he was seldom in Ireland during his adult years, IMO he was imbued with the Celtic bardic spirit. Despite his excesses and sometimes dark underside, I believe he was – as I stated before – a son of the bardic running wave. This conjures up the ocean, which surrounds the Emerald Isle. But there are other oceans with myriad waves in this vast multi-verse. It is also a universe after all, though, and one vast ocean when all is considered.

Joyce was a word juggler, drawing from various languages and time periods. We need this talent too, in order to bridge some gaps and even occasional chasms in understanding. Juggling jesters, all.

James Joyce shows the inherent malleability beneath the surfaces of what are usually considered to be strict and rigid constructs. No wonder Derrida was a fan. It’s also no surprise that his work has been compared to Lewis Carroll’s. As Alice said, "Somehow it seems to fill my head with ideas – only I don't exactly know what they are!" Everything isn’t necessarily strictly logical, at least in the usual sense.

So let’s re-Joyce, in the best sense! Right, Kevin? Keep dowsing – you never know what will well or bubble up. Go forth, indeed!

As ever,

Griffin
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Re: so what would you do?

Postby htmagic » Thu May 01, 2008 3:33 pm

FM No Static At All wrote:Although discovered many years ago, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not widely known to the general public. The Fatima secrets have yet to be publicized. The FACT that UFO's exist, and that there is life beyond our terrestrial boundaries is fact. But regardless of how many eyewitness accounts, it still remains hidden. Yes, I am a witness of several sightings and have "knowledge" that is not widely known. Why? Well, because "they" don't think that humanity can handle it.

Some would be willing to meet, greet, and invite them for dinner if they cared to ... They visited you, right? Well, please introduce me to one (or more) of them (only if they're friendly).

Fact? Facts do not mean much when we have politics to contend with. Why are we driving gas guzzling, polluting vehicles when electric is clean, more efficient and much lower costs to maintain? Because the oil industry and power utilities spread FUD. Just as Microsoft has done for years. Fear, uncertainty, doubt, for those who are not familiar with this term.

Nope! We don't have electric cars for one reason - greed! Watch Who Killed the Electric Car? for the rest of the story...

Why is it that we give people poisons (drugs) that alleviate symptoms but do not eradicate disease? The AMA and FDA are lobbying to restrict the use of natural supplements stating emphatically that only drugs cure, yet cancer has not been cured by drugs. We are brainwashed into believing that our best interests are at stake, when it is the profits that motivate the health care industry.

Amen! It's back to that greed thing again! That's why the AMA threw Dr. Rife in jail and stole his equipment. And the world suffers as a result.


There are obvious reasons to keep some technologies hidden for real security concerns. I can only imagine Iran with technology to create weapons of mass destruction, and perhaps such technological knowledge while capable of benevolent use can enrich the lives of millions, just like nuclear energy it can also be the downfall of life on the planet.

Yeah, like when the US went in and found out that Iraq was enriching uranium using the old calutron process, 50 year old technology that was declassified because it was old technology. Gee, isn't that how America built their first nuke? Loose lips sink ships!

Hence the expression, "If I tell you, I'll have to kill you" is borne not so much as a threat to the individual, but as a broader warning that such knowledge can kill us all.

Perhaps "secret" is not the proper term. I prefer "privileged" instead. There are those who feel that they are privileged to have certain knowledge and do not share it openly because...well there are to use your personal signature "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

So I ask again, you and to all others that it applies to:

WHAT ARE YOU PRETENDING NOT TO KNOW?
Fred


The older I get, the less I seem to know. And I probably forgot a lot of what I really DID know...

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Re: so what would you do?

Postby FM No Static At All » Thu May 01, 2008 5:30 pm

htmagic wrote:
FM No Static At All wrote:Although discovered many years ago, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not widely known to the general public. The Fatima secrets have yet to be publicized. The FACT that UFO's exist, and that there is life beyond our terrestrial boundaries is fact. But regardless of how many eyewitness accounts, it still remains hidden. Yes, I am a witness of several sightings and have "knowledge" that is not widely known. Why? Well, because "they" don't think that humanity can handle it.


Some would be willing to meet, greet, and invite them for dinner if they cared to ... They visited you, right? Well, please introduce me to one (or more) of them (only if they're friendly).


You probably met and know a few and did not recognize the fact that they are. When I met my wife, she related a story about some folks in New York that claimed they met people from another star system. Yeah right. When I moved to Oregon I met a guy in Eugene that was a photographer who made a similar claim. I asked him if they came to him in a dream, or abducted him and he experienced "missing time" to which he replied, "No, I met them while in New York when I was going to a Rolling Stones gig."

Fred
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Re: so what would you do?

Postby htmagic » Thu May 01, 2008 8:39 pm

FM No Static At All wrote:
htmagic wrote:Some would be willing to meet, greet, and invite them for dinner if they cared to ... They visited you, right? Well, please introduce me to one (or more) of them (only if they're friendly).


You probably met and know a few and did not recognize the fact that they are. When I met my wife, she related a story about some folks in New York that claimed they met people from another star system. Yeah right. When I moved to Oregon I met a guy in Eugene that was a photographer who made a similar claim. I asked him if they came to him in a dream, or abducted him and he experienced "missing time" to which he replied, "No, I met them while in New York when I was going to a Rolling Stones gig."

Fred


OMG! :shock: I was just at a Moody Blues concert in Baltimore!
I thought I saw aliens! :lol:

Seriously though, I thought it was a GREAT concert! And my new moniker below is from one of the Moody Blues songs...

Come to think of it, the band members still look like they did 20 years ago! I wonder if they have a FTM? The Moody Blues band members don't look like mummies like the Rolling Stones band members! 8)

BTW, I don't normally go up to people and say, "Hi, I'm Bill, are you from another planet?" So unless they tell me I won't know...
I do not think I'm psychic enough to know if they are aliens...
And even if they told me, I wouldn't know unless they pull out their pictures of their spaceship! :)

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I think

Postby James Barrett » Thu May 01, 2008 8:42 pm

I think that I have a good candidate for you. For someone being an " alien" Anybody see the movie " Charlie Wilsons War" yet? I believe its gone to CD now. That fellow. The REAL Charlie Wilson. I think that he might just qualify. Damn that guy was tall! And he seemed to just mesmerize people. You put him on one of those little mountain horses and he even looks taller ( see the special edition to the movie ... its almost as interesting as the movie itself) Just how does a fellow like that get inspired into the actions that he took? ( other than not being able to say no to a very persuasive woman! Looks like the years 1987-1989 were important in that neck of the " woods".

And Paul. I nominate that fellow playing the CIA agent to play Beau Kitselman. Look at pictures of both. He could carry the role, ya think? Or, haven't you seen the movie yet? That one role is worth watching. And of course Sorkins " You aint no James Bond" is almost as good as some of the other lines. Course I remember you might be still in a tiff with the writer? James
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