Chapter 56: All Flags Flying

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Paul S.
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Chapter 56: All Flags Flying

Post by Paul S. »

Last edited by Paul S. on Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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Well, FINALLY <g>

Post by Victoria Steele »

Just wanting you to know that I am here, WAITING. BREATHLESSLY!!!!! Determined not to get left at the post this time! Got my notebook all ready! . Thanks Paul. Really. This is alot of fun!

AND YOU PUT THAT UP THERE AND I ALMOST MISSED IT!

So touching Paul, REALLY. I love it when you write about the two couples in your story because it lends so much tenderness to the story. Can you imagine what that time was like for Josephine and yet she did it! Packed up and moved, sent her boy clear across the country so that she could be one on one with her Townsend. That folks is a special woman.

I found it really interesting that the Caroline Group would supply a house for her. Was she able to stay there for awhile? How beautiful but knowing how much they moved, how long did she get to enjoy the place?

And Sarbacher! HOLY COW! What a bombshell! But you said in the forum months ago that Robert Sarbacher would play a part in this story and that you had solid proof that he and Dr. Brown were interacting in the sixties. But I had no idea that it went back this far! This is so cool! You are right. Except for the comment to Wilbert Smith and one letter to a researcher in the eighties he was very much a mystery man. Congratualations on getting that magazine article! A real plus!

But if he was in the US Navy and the "muscle" was supplied by the English Admiralty? how did that come about? I guess alot of the military rules are broken when you get into intelligence stuff but I just wondered. And this intelligence gathering operation was SUPPOSED to be a dual nation set up.

The only typo I found, first reading ,was that you dropped the H in thrilled . Yeah thats how my prothers reacted to me. Send her back. I've made them pay for that remark! Consistantly!

And, thanks for the headstart! Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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a good solid brick

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

You said for the first many months of collecting information for this book that you felt that you were just collecting the straw and the mud. That the mixing hadn't even occurred yet, not to mention the actual adobe brick laying. But now Paul you are there aren't you. This is how this solid structure is built .... One solid brick at a time., as you said!

I realize that many out there will immediately say .... " How can you possibly be sure that all of this happened? You are relying on the word of two gentlemen that may be leading you astray?"

I was never worried about the credibility of the sources Paul has referenced. They just flat know too much about too many things . They have proven themselves thoroughly. Frankly, they just know too much to be fake ... but I figured it might be possible for some to doubt the conclusions that Paul has reached.

So here is how I resolved that in my mind. This is the version of the story that Paul has so carefully chosen to present, given the information he has been given. Its the most accurate that he could relate given the information he was allowed. Of that information he has worked hard to substantiate background material and the connecting threads, as difficult as that has been. Obviously much of this can not be proven by "easy to reach" sources.

OR CAN'T IT? I truly believe that what Paul said about Robert Sarbacher is absolutely true. I have met Mr. ORiley personally and I trust him. His memory is excellent and his recollection of what happened those days in Germany in 45 are probably more accurate than mine of five days ago!

Following Robert Sarbacher could indeed provide the key to unlocking much of this mystery surrounding Townsend Brown. Perhaps somewhere out there is someone who can finally add his/her voice to what has been told by Paul in this chapter. Dr. Sarbacher was a solid, well referenced individual. with PROVEN connections to Townsend Brown over MANY years.

There are bound to be loose threads in this tightly guarded story. And maybe just like that loose thread on that button H, Short mentioned, Maybe if one of us just tugs on it a little the whold button will fall off. Who knows where that might lead!

Congratulations Paul. A difficult chapter well done. Elizabeth
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Totally absorbing, fired me up again, brilliant.
http://www.presidentialufo.com/smith_sarbacher.htm
The magnet man
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/upd ... -001.shtml
the important bit is,
magnesium-zinc/bismuth layers, 25 of them, brilliant, a one way path for space.
I have remote viewed way back, when they were layering the long barrows as insulation , or better as one way direction layers for the flows of space to take, and then once a month as the moon ( MAGNET ) went under their feet ( other side of planet ) back out from the barrow came what had been going in for a month, they didn't bury bodies, they buried the space within the bodies , and then welcomed that space back.
Think willhelm reich and his orgone accumulators, a one way device, pack the positive space into a box and cure everything, thats why they locked him up and burnt his books, profit crazed evil so and so's?
Kevin
fibonacci is king
grinder
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I'd trust you first!

Post by grinder »

Look at this guys:

from http://comecarpentier.com/world_public_forum.htm

At the end of World War II, Operation PAPERCLIP was launched by the US Government to bring German scientists to the USA in the interest of National Security. Some of them, Wernher von Braun – the “father’ of the US space exploration program -, Siegfried Knemeyer, the former head of the RLM (Ministry of Aeronautics), Hans Amtmann, Alexander Lippisch, Robert Sarbacher and others seem to have been in possession of critical knowledge in the field of aeronautics, space flight and UFO technologies. They came to America in 1946. Some of them worked at Air Materiel Command (AMC) at Wright Field (later Wright-Patterson) in Ohio.

THEY CAME TO AMERICA IN 1946? I happen to know already from Pauls research that Robert Sarbacher was BORN IN BALTIMORE!

And yet this account throws him right into the paperclip scientists. They clearly missed that the man was responsible for perhaps locating those guys and getting them to the Americas but was not one of them! Fascinating and amazing!

Oh this was the same writer that said this:In 1955, Project Silver Bug was developed at Wright Patterson AFB. It set out to build a “saucer powered by gas-turbine enginesâ€
grinder
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how man fingers?

Post by grinder »

Getting that odd feeling kevin. Look at this from one of the urls that you posted

Subject: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many fingers?

>> What I find interesting about this conversion is that Sarbacher was
>> describing what we now call nanotechnology, which is currently in
>> its infancy. Go to the NASA Web page and start browsing around. The
>> promise of nanotechnology, according to scientists working on it, is
>> the development of lightweight materials with superstrength, hardness,
>> and heat resistance

So Paul won't get lost in the shuffle trying to follow the Hobbit trail this is from

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/upd ... -001.shtml

(WHERE DID THE PHRASE " HOW MANY FINGERS" COME FROM FOR CHRISSAKES? All I could thjink of was your last chapter! Is this what you guys call a cosmic haha? seriously!)

and then the kicker in my google search is something I found that YOU had said in this and LOOK AT THE DATE September 2005!!!!!!!!! Look at
https://www.ttbrown.com/2005/09/index.html

grinder
Last edited by grinder on Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Radomir
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questions answered

Post by Radomir »

I'm having deja vu even as I write this, which is pretty amazing given that we just had a discussion on the topic.

But nevermind. What a chapter!

A lot of questions answered from the previous chapter. For instance:

--How was TTB transported to the hospital, and more about the hospital and his stay?

--What did Josephine know, when did she know it? As mentioned above, it was not only nice to see more about how they were as a couple and how reciprocally they cared for each other (the digging in the sand was a wonderful image). But it was also nice to see how well the Caroline Group was taking care of their own. A lot of the motivation could be put down to security, but they didn't have to say "any house you want" allowing her to pick just the right locale for his recovery.

--How did we know so much detail about what happened in the Squad #1 debacle? O'Riley grilled "Arkensas" pretty thoroughly. (Would NOT want to be on the receiving end of that grilling.)

--Were the documents recovered from the farmhouse--yes they were. Of course we don't know what they were about, but at least we know they were recovered. This speaks to the partial completion of the mission--so not a complete failure even though they lost the scientist they had come to retrieve. I love how Sarbacher makes sure that the TICOM commander is only looking for hardware "now get your ass in there and get those machines!" Not a word about , "and any associated paperwork you can find!" We'll just take those, thanks.

--We also know more about how Brown was rescued--what a sacrifice by the German tank commander. Now it is natural that Brown was depressed when he returned. I lived in Belgium for a year and a half and the weather alone in that region can cause clinical depression--but being shot in the lung and feeling you were expendable makes it that much worse. However, if I could talk with TTB today, I would point out there's a difference between being expendable if necessary, versus being worthless. Clearly a very brave and noble man made the ultimate sacrifice so that TTB could live. He obviously thought Brown was worth more than his own life.

The new information about Sarbacher is going to take some time to assimilate. Not to mention the information about how Von Luck and Sarbacher were recruited into the CG. And Belluzzo...

This direction leads to alot of new questions.

As mentioned above, how does scientist Sarbacher get to the point he is in that Jeep representing British Admiralty's DNI? And commanding with authority and perception that shows he's not brand new to the field, he's been out there operating for some time. For that matter, how does scientist Sarbacher wind up palling around Italy with a future Panzer Commander, "helping with expenses?" Was he part of the recruiting team, or still someone about to be recruited?

The flying disc stuff...I can't believe that there is anything earth-shatteringly secret about discs that might use jet technology even close to that in use today. So one assumes they are a cover for some other propulsion system. The gyro stabilization system is interesting to contemplate, what else could go in that space? Nothing in that linked article about charging the leading or trailing edges of the discs...but now we're back to why would a (flame?) jet be there, or what use other than propulsion might it serve?

Thanks for the Kurosawa-style presentation, Paul, another chapter well done!

R.
Last edited by Radomir on Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
twigsnapper
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tank commander

Post by twigsnapper »

I just wanted to make a point about the tank commander.

I have wondered sometimes what his life would have been like if he had survived that particular moment. I came to the conclusion quite a long time ago that he had considered carefully what his options were and staying to save Dr. Brown was really the best situation for him. It was his final choice and a good one. At least then something good came from his loss. I believe he honestly understood that and came to that conclusion in that odd dead stillness that surrounds you when you have resigned your fate. I have actually been there more than once and have always been somewhat surprised that I am still present. But I have been in that zone so I know what he was feeling. Some call it being prepared to " meet your maker" and there might be something to that. In any case a sense of quiet takes over, and you either leave ..... or you find yourself still having to deal with the day to day situations.

His alternate choice (and he knew it ) would have been to attempt to reach his tank crew, which he probably felt had already come to their end at the end of a Russian rifle or pistol to the head. The Russians did not take SS prisoners and he had already decided that he was not going to turn himself over to the Allies. So, I am sure he quietly made his decision and followed through.

Conversations with Dr. Brown much later, especially in 1956, he was quite aware of that mans sacrifice and appreciative of it. twigsnapper
Victoria Steele
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brown seersucker????

Post by Victoria Steele »

Surrounded by all that important information about Sarbacher and Von Luck and other characters I found something sort of strange. I wondered if anyone picked it up.

Now I know that Dr. Brown was probably in pretty miserable shape in that un named and obviously classified hospital. But there were just some things about that part of the story that tweaked my interest. Brown and white seersucker material for a nurses uniform? I just can't picture it. Actually I don't even think I have seen that material ... blue and white, red and white, so I guess its possible, just haven't noticed it. But a nurses uniform. Thats GOT to be a clue about this hospital. I wonder if it was a private facility, not military. Remember that Dr. Brown was NOT in the military so I don't know why he would go to a military hospital. And the roses in a silver vase is a mystery to me. For some reason Paul found it important to include that and he mentioned that Josephine put flowers on his table too. Maybe he just needed to have them around and especially asked for flowers so that he could think of her. Interesting though that connection. Are you SURE she didn't know that he was in that hospital. It almost FEELS like the flowers were her specifications. Does that make any sense. I mean, if Josephine was " In the business" during the early forties... even for just a short time working for the English BSC (Stephenson) maybe she had her own intelligence connections? Stranger things have happened. Would she have told anybody?. I don't think so. Victoria
grinder
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seersucker?

Post by grinder »

I can figure ONE thing out anyway! Look

http://www.blitzkriegbaby.de/anc/anc3c.htm#seersucker

Army Nurses Corps. Whatever the heck that means!

Before now I didn't even know "seersucker" was a material. I would have guessed it was some sort of bird! grinder
Radomir
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Re: tank commander

Post by Radomir »

twigsnapper wrote:I just wanted to make a point about the tank commander.

I have wondered sometimes what his life would have been like if he had survived that particular moment. I came to the conclusion quite a long time ago that he had considered carefully what his options were and staying to save Dr. Brown was really the best situation for him. It was his final choice and a good one. At least then something good came from his loss. I believe he honestly understood that and came to that conclusion in that odd dead stillness that surrounds you when you have resigned your fate. I have actually been there more than once and have always been somewhat surprised that I am still present. But I have been in that zone so I know what he was feeling. Some call it being prepared to " meet your maker" and there might be something to that. In any case a sense of quiet takes over, and you either leave ..... or you find yourself still having to deal with the day to day situations.

His alternate choice (and he knew it ) would have been to attempt to reach his tank crew, which he probably felt had already come to their end at the end of a Russian rifle or pistol to the head. The Russians did not take SS prisoners and he had already decided that he was not going to turn himself over to the Allies. So, I am sure he quietly made his decision and followed through.

Conversations with Dr. Brown much later, especially in 1956, he was quite aware of that mans sacrifice and appreciative of it. twigsnapper
Thanks for that sobering and moving background which adds such dimensionality --and reality -- to the tank commander's sacrifice. And to your experiences as well.

Of course Dr. Brown would be aware of his sacrifice, thanks for confirming that. Perhaps my previous comments were too hastily composed. He wouldn't need anyone to remind him of that, but I suppose even the tank commander's sacrifice still did not mitigate the depression that set in after his injury, regarding that sense of being expendable. That's a tough thing to face, especially if you went into things, as it seems he did, feeling you were not deemed so.

R.
Radomir
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Re: seersucker?

Post by Radomir »

grinder wrote:I can figure ONE thing out anyway! Look

http://www.blitzkriegbaby.de/anc/anc3c.htm#seersucker

Army Nurses Corps. Whatever the heck that means!

Before now I didn't even know "seersucker" was a material. I would have guessed it was some sort of bird! grinder
Great sleuthing, Grinder! Who knew that even the "off duty dress" would look so much like...every other uniform?

R.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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coming to terms

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

You are so funny grinder! Thanks for the visual of the brown "seersucker"

My thanks too Mr. Twigsnapper for that glimpse into an experience which not very many of us, I assume, have experienced. That "quiet zone"

And I agree with you Radomir. I think that this experience affected Dr. Brown in ways even he wouldn't have expected. There was nothing in his privledged upbringing that would have prepared him for the experience that he literally jumped into during that muddy spring.

And I agree with you. Grey days do help promote depression and Dr. Brown was a "sun worshipper" .... a naked one .... if he could get away with it !...a beach loving sunshine soaking wild child. and I am sure that was just not possible in Merry Ol' England. Merry perhaps but with a dim view of " "taking the sun" as Mr. Twigsnapper would call it .... and there just wasn't any sunshine anyway from the sound of it.

And you are right I am sure. Dr. Brown had always had others treat him as somehow "special". He didn't require that, didn't count on it, but rarely was he treated poorly or with indifference. To learn that he was considered totally "expendable" by the very military that he was fighting to help and protect. Well, I think that created a rift perhaps that might not have been there before. What happened I am sure he wondered, to the Marine motto .... "leave no man behind." Of course he was a realist I am sure and must have known that the military at this point considered him just a civilian.

And from early May to August ... four months without Josephines good company. That probably didn't help his mood either. Elizabeth
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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being "expendible"

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

This is an interesting observation which shows you how very differently Mr. ORiley and Dr. Brown looked at circumstances around them.

This is from Chapter 42 " Your First Lesson"

"During World War II, O'Riley lied about his age in order to enlist with the English Navy. “I was very young,â€
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

Paul...The best Chapter yet.

As far as Sarbacher's significance to the big picture, all that one has to do is study the meaning of his family name.You know how literalist the Germans were during the Kaiser - Nazi era, or at least I have found that to be true. I think Robert was a "traveler" as was probably the young Italian Heiress. The reason as to why the "Carolines" seemed, in retrospect, to transcend the realities of the times ?... duh'oh !

All...
Now I know why I had such a hard time negotiating research contracts out of Wright-Pat. And I thought back then (70's) that all the stories about bldg. 18 were steaming piles of Horse Hockey !

flow.... 8)
Dancing is better than marching
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