Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Is there a point which is 19.5 anywhere near the Hawaiian Islands?
I don't have a map which shows this and since you have one which shows Honolulu at N 21 degrees, 18m, W157d,50 m...... where then is 19.5? I think we are asking the same question of kevin here ... what set of co ordinates are you using Kevin? It may be relative to something that we don't see normally? Didn't make any sense just then ... sorry..... but kevin we need a little more help here.
My quess is going to be that the co ordinates we are looking for will end up NOT being in Pearl Harbor or even Honolulu. Not however saying that they are not important. Just different than we might have figured. Elizabeth
since you have answered me so quickly Paul thanks ..... the saddle between the two volcanoes? ..... and land owned by? .... I am hazarding a guess here, could be way off .... but what was the "Company" or " Plantation" that Townsend Brown listed as his "employer" while in Hawaii.? According to the FBI? Want to bet? Elizabeth
No, but the first link that he provided specifically mentions the Big Island and the two volcanoes. Kauai is the northernmost island and its soil has a high iron content, even though it too is of volcanic origins and is the oldest of the chain in geological time. It's at least as far north of Ohau as the Big Island is south of Oahu.
Grove Farm Ltd. huh ? I'm a believer in name non-coincidences. Leslie Groves...you know...the Manhattan Project...etc. Just stabbing in the dark
here.
Yes Flow, I thought of that rather immediately once Paul reminded me that was the name of the Plantation .... Groves ...... as in ALSOS which was the code name for the TICOM operations.( Ancient Greek for Grove" Duh .... couldn't they have been ALITTLE more subtle? I dunno, maybe its just us and we are primed to notice this, but yes ... I did take note.
And onto another subject
following up on Mr. Twigsnappers comments on where he was during the terrible European winter of 1945-46 ... I guess just waiting to be re-established with Dr. Sarbacher ... I believe it might have been on the shore of the Black Sea. An ancient town named Sokhumi. (or Sukhumi.) He mentioned pointedly "Palm Trees" and for the life of me thats the only place in Georgia ( not terribly far from that POW camp) that was known for palm trees and subtropical weather.I note too that it was an early Greek settlement in the Ancient world, which might account for his comment about the ladies with " Greek traits" or whatever it was that he said. LBL .... throw this on your list of possibilities and see if it makes sense to you.
and like you said " Tolstoy" could have been a son ..... or grandson .... and then I suddenly remembered the man that Paul wrote about who "interviewed" Morgan and gave him his " Russian language test" during the summer of 1964. Tolstoys home? You think?
I'd like to know who he was "wintering with" but I just don't think he is going to volunteer that information.
A ladies honor involved maybe? Or maybe she was a Russian spy? Our Mr. Twigsnapper certainly enjoyed the challenge I think of a dangerous woman so I wouldn't put it past him! The original " From Russia With Love maybe? Elizabeth
My original guess was either Chechnya or Georgia, which were relatively close to the POW camp, but the hint of Palm Trees clinches it for me:
Sokhumi, formerly Sukhumi city, capital of Abkhazia, Georgia. It lies on the site of the ancient Greek colony of Dioscurias on the Black Sea coast. Sokhumi's seaside location, beaches, and warm climate made it a popular Black Sea resort, with many sanatoriums and holiday camps...
Maybe it could have been Batumi, where the climate is subtropical, with Palm trees, lemon and orange trees. It was (is?) the last stop of the Trans-Caucasian railroad and the Baku oil pipeline, and Batumi is located on the site of the ancient Greek colony of Batis - derived from the Greek words bathis limin meaning 'deep port'.
Like Ladygrady mentioned, I was thinking of Roman/Greek roads and trade routes through Eastern European continent to Asia. This would make sense out of the comments Twigsnapper made about the Greek-Asian looking ladies.
Maybe Twigsnapper's travel partner was not just an agent; maybe like in the movie "Spy Game" the partner was ... I forgot the term.. Someone you 'use' to get where you need to get to. Like a fake wife. I'm not sure of the term. Help??!!
LBL
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
I was following you guys about the trade routes to Asia etc and "stumbled" on this site. Even the caption caught my attention and then of course, the name Tolstoy!
So apparently this is what Illya Tolstoy was doing in 1943. Apparently he was a US Army officer scouting out routes for military supplies through Tibet. TWO MEN they said. Tolstoy and a man named Dolan? So ..... is this another two man Caroline operation? maybe?
In 1964 he was having sandwiches with Dr. Brown, Morgan and Linda at Marineland near St. Augustine. Half threatening Morgan I think (but that didn't scare the younster off, apparently. He would scare the hell outta me, from the picture you posted.)
So what was Tolstoy doing during the winter of 1945? early spring of 1946?
Thanks LBL for the idea of the end of the Asian pipeline. You are right both of you, I think. What a great spot for a gathering of spies.
But I guess now we are looking at other warm places with palm trees? Hawaii? grinder
grinder wrote:I was following you guys about the trade routes to Asia etc and "stumbled" on this site. Even the caption caught my attention and then of course, the name Tolstoy!
So apparently this is what Illya Tolstoy was doing in 1943. Apparently he was a US Army officer scouting out routes for military supplies through Tibet. TWO MEN they said. Tolstoy and a man named Dolan? So ..... is this another two man Caroline operation? maybe?
In 1964 he was having sandwiches with Dr. Brown, Morgan and Linda at Marineland near St. Augustine. Half threatening Morgan I think (but that didn't scare the younster off, apparently. He would scare the hell outta me, from the picture you posted.)
So what was Tolstoy doing during the winter of 1945? early spring of 1946?
Thanks LBL for the idea of the end of the Asian pipeline. You are right both of you, I think. What a great spot for a gathering of spies.
But I guess now we are looking at other warm places with palm trees? Hawaii? grinder
Grinder,
Thank you!!
Lt Col Ilya Tolstoy. Goes back to what Twigsnapper or somebody said; the TCG weren't just anybody. High mililitary power, people of influence. I didn't realize that he was a Lt Col. Ha got to laugh. There's Tibet again.
LBL
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
I have to ask, did your little resort spot smell like rotten eggs?
Lots of sulfur springs up in that area.
LBL
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
...and you know how I like to keep Victoria happy...
So I was rummaging through "the archives" last night and I found a photo of Dr. Brown on the beach in Laguna ca. 1946. The photo is a tad washed out, but you can tell he's looking pretty gaunt.
I would have presumed the figure to his right is Josephine, but Linda says Josephine took the picture so... hmmmm..... Matahari? Tokyo Rose? Eveylyn? Gertrude? Olga? No telling.
That URL again so you don't have to go looking for it:
From what Ive read of the prisoner swaps which centre around the Cossacks, (anti Stalin fighters from the Steppes who joined the Nazis fight against Stalin), the USSR threatened to hold onto allied prisoners liberated by Soviet forces in Germany. So UK forces forced many Cossacks onto trains at gun point.
Given this high level discussion about prisoner movement it is plain that negotiations re prisoners took place and that swaps occurred.
The technology involved the powering of craft from excited layers of the atmosphere has a direct application in installations such as HAARP. Canada is nearer the pole than the majority of the US excepting Alaska.
Its all very well to produce a jet powered disc craft, but yawn.
That cant be the propulsion method. The method of energising the craft remotely so that there is little fuel load is a key.
Thats only 3.5 eggs worth, but thats all ive got.
I still think Browns work with multiple array dipoles had something to do with this.
