"Closer Contact"

[Paul S.]

Or does the obvious answer need to be typed out?

So how would you maintain your secrecy when your units go bump in the night?

You get there first, collect everything that would help you figure out what went wrong, and then you cover the whole incident with a disinformation story. Thats the rational thing. Martin

Right. A disinformation story. Something like "the aliens are coming, the aliens are coming...."

Except, maybe, sorta like Pogo said, "we have met the aliens, and they is us."

--PS

[Paul S.]

In other words, if HE and his GROUP actually had "Flying Saucers" out there running tests, (and maybe even crashing). What better organization to be involved with on the surface tahn something like NICAP. Its like absolutely perfect! He doesn't have to explain, REALLY, his interest.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Well, it makes perfect sense to me. But, then, I know a few things that I haven't mentioned yet... you know... "rest of the story" stuff.

There is one episode that has not been discussed here, something that happened in 1950, which goes a long way toward explaining everything that Townsend Brown did from 1950 until (near as I can tell) he stopped taking notes in 1958.

Anybody who makes it to Las Vegas will find out there what I'm talking about.

In the meantime, Victoria is basically right. NICAP was a "cover" operation, Brown's separation from it added further tarnish to reputation (deliberately), and Cook took the story hook-line-and-sinker.

Amazing how something like that is still working its magic 50 years later...

--PS

[Mark Culpepper]

A disturbance from beneath the sea! A huge shadow in the depths! It breaks into the air, magnificent, enormous, covered with ..... whatever whales are covered with! An enormous splash! Is it gone again? or is it going to hang around a bit and follow our boat?

1950 . Something happened that we don't know yet? Something to be revealed at the Las Vegas conference? Now that has my attention!

Though I don't understand how his separation from it bothered Cook. It was his inclusion in it that I think got the guy even more! You know, that sort of made Townsend Brown one of the crank population. and you are right, Cook reacted just the way most would have. Townsend Brown plus people who are talking about how their cow was stolen by a " Flying Saucer" , how "little green men" were seen here or there .... that adds up to someone who is much easier to overlook. Plus you know ... he wasn't "credentialed" by some university. Like Mikado said. Some "ride their papers" and "Dr." Brown didn't have those papers. Pretty good foil, if it was intentional, But ... WHY? Mark C.

[Mikado14]

Plus you know ... he wasn't "credentialed" by some university. Like Mikado said. Some "ride their papers" and "Dr." Brown didn't have those papers. Pretty good foil, if it was intentional, But ... WHY? Mark C.

Hello Mark,

I am going out on a limb here but I will give you a Mikado interpretation.

Dr. Brown was similar to what we referred to as a bastard engineer. A bastard engineer was someone who didn't have a "full" degree but could work as one. Secondly, they could also work as a tech. Do you know how rare that is? Thirty years ago it was that way and I will say that it was also that way 70 years ago.

An example, An engineer was working at Smith Pies about thirty years ago. They were running digital thermometers throughout the freezers to monitor product as it was cooling. The sensors were imbedded in the floors and as the unit cycled to the sensors, terrible oscillations occurred and the unit would not work. The end result was parasitic oscillations, a few computations and the proper value was installed on all the matrix feeds in the floor. This man was a Penn State graduate from the 50's but he couldn't see a parasitic oscillation. Can you see my point?

Dr. Brown was an inspirational scientist as well as an engineer. He could not only have the idea, he could literally build it. He saw it in his mind and there were no obstacles between his mind and his hands.

Isn't that the idea Mr. Twigsnapper? Why else would he be in Germany? He could look at it and by golly he had a damn good idea of what was going on. That is what made him so valuable to the Group.

Mikado

[Trickfox]

31 December 1958
Canadian proposal submitted for topside sounding satellite

This paper appears in: HF Radio Systems and Techniques, 2000.
Eighth International Conference on (IEE Conf. Publ. No. 474)
Publication Date: 2000
On page(s): 233-237
Meeting Date: 07/10/2000 - 07/13/2000
Location: Guildford, UK
ISBN: 0-85296-727-6
References Cited: 5
INSPEC Accession Number: 6734922
Posted online: 2002-08-06 23:37:41.0

Abstract
This paper presents a comparison of the two main techniques for measuring the direction of arrival of signals that have been proposed for implementation on a topside sounding satellite. The assumption is that the topside sounder would be a payload on a Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) satellite. The two candidate methods are amplitude direction finding (DF) where the relative amplitude on two (or more) receiving antennas is compared, and an interferometric method where the relative phases of reception on two antennas separated in space are compared. A novel interferometric “synthetic apertureâ€

[twigsnapper]

For those of you who might not remember the Cheltenham race course story, I am still a bit of a horseman. And as such I have bred and raised some more than fair bloodstock, in this country as well as else where.

Something happens when you find yourself in that situation. You have deep knowledge of each foals background. (You have usually galloped his sire as a three year old, or sent his grand dam to Kentucky for a hot date, in other words you know what that foal IS by what you have experienced before, even though he may have been foaled in another country, under another stud management. In a bunch of rowdy colts, you could pick him out.

So in Dr. Browns case, if he were a horseman traveling Germany looking for a particular thing in a prosective colt, if his search was zeroed down on a particular blood line, which had started with him at his farm .... he would be able to recognize that colt no matter how it might be intentionally disguised.

Long way to get my point across but I wanted you to understand that the valuable colt that may have been hunted for in Germany was the end result of a breeding program that started with Dr. Brown in this country. No one else would have had the ability to recognize what they were looking at when those colts were all penned up. Twigsnapper

[Mikado14]

Long way to get my point across but I wanted you to understand that the valuable colt that may have been hunted for in Germany was the end result of a breeding program that started with Dr. Brown in this country. No one else would have had the ability to recognize what they were looking at when those colts were all penned up. Twigsnapper

I like you more every day and am really starting to admire your technique you have cleared a cobweb.

Mikado

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Again, thank you Andrew and now you Trickfox. What would a girl do without you both?

So, Paul. (dancing in the dark here)

Now might the phrase " The boys topside" in your notes regarding Smiths communications (it was Smith, right?) take on a different flavor than before? Elizabeth

[twigsnapper]

Victoria,

You asked Paul if Dr. Sarbacher, Beau Kitselman and Dr. Brown were ever in the same place at the same time. Paul answered "no",because that was the information that he had at the time. He did leave an open door for the possibility, which was wise of him.

Dr. Brown, Beau Kitselman (just off a flight from California) and Dr. Sarbacher met at a laboratory not too far from Alexandria Va. in June of 1960.

Dr. Brown was showing off part of his interest ( the lifting capacity of one of his discs) but in actually that was a sidebar for the three men. Dr. Sarbacher then drove Dr. Brown and Mr. Kitselman to the marina which was just off Hunting creek where they visited for a moment on the Browns very nice cruiser. One of my men happens to be in a picture you have of part of that event. Perhaps you are familiar with it. It was a hot day and Dr. Brown was quickly shed of his business suit and in a swimsuit. The picture Paul has is one of my favorites of him, Josephine too.

To you now Paul,
Now this is an interesting situation for me. I am not usually in a place where I would normally volunteer information like that but in a way, this might be a valuable lesson for you in the future. There was someone you could have asked, but didn't. Project Invisibility should not mean that valuable resources are overlooked as well. Twigsnapper

[Paul S.]

Dr. Sarbacher then drove Dr. Brown and Mr. Kitselman to the marina which was just off Hunting creek where they visited for a moment on the Browns very nice cruiser. One of my men happens to be in a picture you have of part of that event.

Right. I simply forgot: those photos that were taken aboard the Duchess. According to my "sources," they were taken by.... (drum roll please)... Beau Kitselman.

I retract my earlier response. My qualified "no" should have been and unqualified "yes."

--PS

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

This message is for Mikado particularly. Thank you for the story about the engineer at Smiths some thirty years ago. That man would appreciate then what Beau Kitselman had to say about Townsend Brown.

This quote is from a little book that was published, I believe, in 1962. (Hello Stupid) If you have time Mikado, read the whole thing! It will give you an insight into Mr. Kitselmans point of view. The Commander B he mentions is, of course, Townsend Brown. The Dr. T. he mentions is Dr. Edward Teller ( who managed to avoid seeing any of Townsend Browns work until Floyd Odlum FORCED him to have a meeting with Dr. Brown and his daughter in the spring/summer of 1967. But I digress.)

http://www.flyingdisk.com/stupid.htm

"I found Commander B. to be a quiet, modest, retiring man - exactly the sort one expects to find in important research installations. He was a brilliant solver of engineering problems, and I soon found that he was more familiar with fundamental physical forces than anyone I had met. So many of us are strictly text-book scientists that it is stimulating to find someone who has first-hand knowledge."

So there you go! Pleased to be able to have you meet Mr. Kitselman, even though there has been a time delay! Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

THIS IS GREAT!

Through the little book that Mr. Kitselman wrote in 1962 we are actually given a glimpse into a particular moment in Townsend Browns life (the summertime meeting of Brown, Kitselman and Sarbacher in 1960! And Paul has pictures too! Kitselman mentions in his book being at the "lab" so can I assume that he is speaking of the same trip which Mr. Twigsnapper has mentioned.

"I remember how excited I was on the day I telephoned B. in Washington after being out of touch for several years, and was told, "The lift isn't just 1% any longer; the apparatus will now lift 110% of it's own weight!" My wife and I immediately flew to Washington and with our own eyes saw a moderately heavy gadget made of metal and Pyrex lift itself right up when 50,000 volts were applied - and float steadily when a slightly lower voltage was used. ( So Paul, I am assuming here what he was showing to Mr. Kitselman was what others now call a "lifter"? And this, according to Mr. Twigsnapper, this meeting took place in June of 1960?)

"We found that B. and friends had organized a corporation, carried on experiments, applied for over 75 patents in 12 major countries (more than half of which have been granted), and are slowly and patiently giving demonstrations for the Pentagon and key manufacturers in the United States" ( What does Mr. Kitselman mean .... B. and "friends"? ... 75 patents, 12 major countries? What organization would that have been? It sounds International in flavor so would this have been the "Whitehall Rand" I have seen mentioned before regarding his patents? " Whitehall being an obvious nod to England, I would think.)

And Dr. Brown apparently still has "security" assigned to him by Mr. Twigsnapper himself or he would not have said "my man". And you have a picture Paul? Would it be too much to ask if we can see it? Understood if you want to keep it for the hardcover.

The other thing that I find really touching and appealing in a sad sort of way is what Mr. Kitselman said about Dr. Browns son.

"Commander B. has a son in college, majoring in physical culture. His father had hoped he would take up some kind of scientific career, but the young B. said, "Dad, I wouldn't go through what you have gone through for anything in the world!"

Thats just terminally sad when you think about it. I believe that Townsend Brown was not unlike alot of men out there. His son is old enough to be in college, I wonder how disappointed Dr. Brown was that Joseph made that statement. I am sure (as Kitselman has confirmed) that he had hoped Joseph would stand beside him in his work. Doesn't look all that encouraging at this point anyway. Did Kitselman happen to meet Joseph Brown? He mentions him . I just wondered if he had a chance to meet him during this trip? "Son in college", he said .... its summer .... so was Joseph there?

The picture that is out on the forum is that cute picture of Dr. Brown pointing to the sky for some reason and Linda sitting so upright right next to him. I thought when I saw that picture that her heart was already divided. She is right beside her Dad, but she has a toy horse in her lap. No Barbie dolls in this girls future. and it doesn't look like she will have the company of her older brother either. Thats just ..... sad. Victoria

[Chris Knight]

There don't appear to be any changes to that copy, but the original copy made from the orginal is at: http://www.qualight.com/stress/hello.htm.

Seventy-five patent applications is over 12 countries is a pretty large number. Townsend's notes don't have near as many as that recorded. Granted many of the applications are for duplicate/similar devices in different countries, but the number of patents that were granted still leaves a large gap in the records. Of course, barring any applications that were classified, it's only possible to search under a limited number of known names and companies.

Andrew

P.S. This is cross-linked over at Victoria's new thread.

[grinder]

So as I see it we have a discrepancy between what Beau Kitselman says and what Dr. Browns records show. A couple of ways of looking at that, at least. One, Beau Kitselman is being absolutely accurate and there were that many that somehow went behind a curtain of classification. Or two .... he is putting out a piece of information, like the " had a nervous breakdown and went home to rest" story . Or perhaps there were many other ideas along that trail that just haven't occurred to me yet. Or maybe to you, just not to me. So speak up those of you who are reading and have a thought aobout all of thsi.

I still want to know who these "friends" were. He mentions "friends several times. Ffriends who "rang doorbells" "friends who arranged a trip to Paris" Just a loose end.

And those black Cadillacs or Lncoln limos or sedans keep coming up. The disgruntled alumni in the Denison files mentioned black black Lincoln cars with radios, and its interesting but I finished reading about the early CIA where it was said that in Washington in the mid and late fifties the mark of power was a black Cadillac sedan. (I'll find the name and the page in a bit) Everyone else the author mused , got stuck with fords or chevys. I had to laugh when I read that because all I could think of was Dr. Brown with his beautiful jade green convertible Cadillac, with the top down, generally! I don't think he ever did what was expected! grinder

[Trickfox]

I guess it must be true that from a long time ago people have always rumoured that Dr. Brown was a CIA big shot who had access to security guards equipped with black cadillacs equipped the most sophisticated communication electronics, and perhaps even the most advanced weapons as well.

In the 80s we used plain white police cruisers with a thin beige pinstripe and LOTS of antennas on the roof 6 to 10. they looked like any ordinary police cars but they had those"looks like government" subtleties anyway so I guess that was the way to go. (Ranges from next door to the moon)

Nowadays the hummers are taking over.

Personnaly I wonder if Dr. Brown would of had something like "a segway" to scoot back and forth to work. perhaps a hummer following him around?

trickfox