E/G Communications and Quantum Physics

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Paul will attest to the fact that the last message that went between us mentioned the Roosevelt Hotel. Now considering this cabbie Valee was talking about picked him us .... where? right .... Roosevelt Hotel. Nowthats just plain ******* odd.

"There is only one Melchizedek listed in the LA phone book, and I have the receipt signed by the driver right in front of me. [Reproduced in the book: "2-21-76 Receive $6.25 for taxi fare from Roosevelt Hotel to 3321 S La Cienega, Red & White Cab #98 M. Melchizedek."] It was this incident that convinced me to put more energy into understanding the nature of such coincidences."

So thats the message I just got and apparently needed. What is the nature indeed of such " coincidences ... that are not coincidences ......"

Its an interesting link. http://www.rigint.blogspot.com/ Elizabeth

[flowperson]

Yes...weird Elizabeth, but in line with the associative theories of information science. You might be interested in his Wiki profile, which among other things, details his interpretation of the UFO phenomenon...Vallee's interpretation of the UFO evidence:

Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact.

Vallée also proposes that a secondary aspect of the UFO phenomenon involves human manipulation by humans. Witnesses of UFO phenomena undergo a manipulative and staged spectacle, meant to alter their belief system, and eventually, influence human society by suggesting alien intervention from outer space. The ultimate motivation for this deception is probably a projected major change of human society, the breaking down of old belief systems and the implementation of new ones. Vallée cannot say who or what is behind this scheme, only that the evidence, if carefully analysed, suggests an underlying plan for the deception of mankind by means of psychotronic technology. It is highly unlikely that governments actually conceal alien evidence, as the popular myth suggests. Rather, it is much more likely that that is exactly what the manipulators want us to believe. Vallée feels the entire subject of UFO's is mystified by charlatans and science fiction. He advocates a stronger and more serious involvement of science in the UFO research and debate. Only this can reveal the true nature of the UFO phenomenon.

flow....
Couldn't get the link thingy to work...here's the address.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallee

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Thank you for that Flow, especially this part which I have a couple of comments on

"Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact."

And I wonder. He says that this "non-human conciousness" masqurades in various forms to different cultures. Yes, I can see that. .... bu here is where I differ ..... attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact." Now we are back to the old problem. How much of the " Truth" do some people NEED to learn at any one time. If I withold the " WHOLE TRUTH" then am I deceiveing someone? Maybe you could look at it that way.

I still think some parts of humanity are not worthy of learning the whole of anything. Various cultures here on Earth today are busy trying to eliminate each other.... burning villiages and killing entire families and here in this country we look the other way? What do we deserve considering all of that?

And in a busy urban hospital in LA a woman is left to die on the floor in a hallway. She was throwing up ,I was told, and the janitor came along and cleaned up after her. The discussion I had a few minutes ago was that at least in that sorry example of a hospital AT LEAST HE WAS DOING HIS JOB but no one else there seemed to give a rip.

And then you wonder why another intelligence would "masquarade" in our presence. Thats just simple self protection on their part. Using deception? You bet! We are a very rough crowd here. don't you think thats the lightest of what they COULD do? I think it shows great restraint myself.

Elizabeth

[flowperson]

Absolutely spot on Elizabeth. In some ways we are a miserable excuse for a species and probably deserve to be decieved from time to time. There is also the relatively new analysis of social progress that advances are only made through periods and instances of "confusion".

Complex systems theory would connote this with a purposeful introduction of chaotic episodes for the purpose of inducing an eventual new ordering of the natural system at issue. This would also jibe with the late Stephen J. Gould's theory regarding evolution. He viewed the process as a time-bound system of "punctuated equilibrium".

My time spent with people versed in religion and the history of cultural anthropology, especially studies concerning the spiritual beliefs of indigenous peoples, shows an interesting parallel belief across many such cultures. They believed that the most essential feature of dealing with spiritual forces and associated entities was the experience of being in the presence of entities that possessed "shape shifting" capabilities and attributes. This seems to fit with Vallee's analysis in a way. And of course Hollywood has reinforced that notion for about 80 years now.

flow....

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Flow,

I just noticed that Pauls little tag line for the Chapter 59 " In which one door opens and another one closes.... its hell in the hallway though"

And that is precisely what we may all expect to be going into soon. I am no prophet but I see the drift here. And just as you said when things are "rearranging themselves" its usually during periods of great stress and upheaval.

And you will agree with me then that this is what we have been told all along through various stories ..... that there will be a time when we all will be tested. And I agree that those hardships are headed in our direction and the only thing ... or ONE of the things that will save us is our acceptance of the knowledge that every individual person is important in his own right, in his own span in time and spot here on this Earth.

A few degrees of temperature change in the Oceans could spell our total destruction, but what then might happen with just a few degrees change in human understanding of the reality of the world around him. What then?

Providence "moves", Paul has said. But it moves to join us when we are already underway.

I happen to think that Pauls book when finished will be an excellent touchstone for people to consider what may really be out there, an invitation to learn the true nature of reality and to participate positively in it. Is our Universe friendly? Einstein asked. ......... it will be what you expect it to be.

Sorry, my two cents worth. rambling on here. Sometime pure action means so much more than words, so I will shut up now! Elizabeth

[Mikado14]

Just a couple of years before he died Dr. Brown received a letter from a very ernest young man ( who is a member of the forum but who I think watches more than says much. He will recognize himself I think) Anyway he wrote a very passionate letter about how Dr. Brown should tell him " Everything you know" and "Include drawings" because , after all .... "You are old now and are going to die soon".

Dr. Brown sent a sweet letter in return ( which we also have in our "letter box" )thanking the kid for his concern but declining his offer.

I have really given this much thought. I have tried to refrain from answering and to just let it go....... I can't.

"A very earnest young man" essentially writes a letter to Doc Brown and implies ...no, says, "since your gonna kick the bucket, it's a shame that you should let all that knowledge die with you so how about giving it to me and I will see if I can make a lot of money with it".

Doc Brown was a lot more genteel than I would have been. Such arrogance, the impudence of youth...to say that to someone he didn't even know.

I do hope that if this individual is "lurking" about the forum that they have ....matured, at least a little.

Sorry for the rant.

Mikado

[Chris Knight]

I wanted to expand on what Elizabeth was talking about - the conversation was regarding the MLK Hospital here in Los Angeles that just lost its funding because it consistently failed to meet the basic health requirements. LindaB (LongboardLOVELY) is well versed in the certification process and has been considering offering her consulting services to get them re-certified so they can open again.

The MLK hospital is located in a lower income area, and has the second highest gunshot and stab wound ER admittance. The woman was apparently a repeat drug abuser (probably cocaine since her symptoms were an obstructed and perforated bowel) and was laying on the ER floor for 45 minutes throwing up. My concern, which I am embarassed to say I expressed to her, was "If you helped get the hospital re-certified, would anything have changed ?" Would the value placed on a person's life be any higher ?"

We started talking about it, because of some of the technology we've been discussing - if we were given a technological "gift," would we step up to the plate, or would we continue putting such a low value on a person's life. What would it take to change the attitude of 6.6 billion people ? I would hate to have to wait another generation to advance to the technological levels we've discussed, but if that's what it takes, then I hope the next generation will be ready...

[grinder]

This is a great forum and somehow I always find a way to fit in between the " rambling" and the " ranting"

I think of course that " the kid" was just being truly a "kid" but the thing that disturbed me maybe the most is the thought that Dr. Brown could somehow distill all that knowledge into a few sheets of paper. " Tell me all you know" I guess he said. My response would have been maybe a very terse " Kid you don't have enough time in your life to learn what I know."

But I think that Dr. Brown realized that this guy was just being ... huh ... whats a kind word? ... huh .... ignorant.

And maybe he is still out there as Elizabeth says he is. And maybe he remembers that exchange? If you are can we hear your side of it? Maybe we are being tougher than we should be on you. Perhaps Dr. Brown read your heart and your concern for lost technology and maybe he understood.

Question is now. If this "kid" was so all fired up to do something important with the knowledge he might have been given and if he maintained that passion then perhaps by now he has continued in this line of research? and maybe even his book will answer some questions that he still has?

. But you see, maybe it was just a flash of interest and was gone the next day and EVEN if Dr. Brown had somehow strangely been compelled to answer him in the afirmative.... Would that have been at all appreciated?

Or even used, or understood ..... " Tell me all you know before you die" My response might have been . " I'll tell you what. I think I'll just go ahead and die and let you figure it out on your own." Actually maybe thats just about what Dr. Brown told him! grinder

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

But Andrew and LindaB,

No matter how bad it is , how poor the hospital is in that dismal area , isn't a hospital there worth more than none at all?

If you could step in and get it somehow recertified .... wouldn't that be worth the effort? Especially if you have the capability to do something like that, wouldn't it be worth your effort?I don't even have to ask that because you already know the answer and actually you have already decided what you are going to do. Just maybe you don't realize it yet.

I know Andrew that I sounded discouraged on the phone while we were talking awhile ago and at that very moment I must admit I was thinking that most humans were not worth any effort. But thats not the truth and you Linda and I know this. If you can do ONE thing Linda that will save ONE kid .............. then EVERYTHINGS worth it. The standing back, even though its sorely tempting ..... is not the right thing to do.

So if you decide to go in that direction I don't know how I can help but in the ways that I can you can count on me. In the back of my mind I can hear a very kind voice saying firmly " GO FORTH!" Elizabeth

[Chris Knight]

Elizabeth,

Yes, you're right, of course. The trick is to figure how to change the attitude of the employees, because that's why they couldn't certify - they didn't care any more.

Linda has suggested that the community must come together to support the hospital. To take a personal interest in its survival.

It's the same with this technology and the human race. We MUST find a common vision to inspire us all to greatness, or we will remain quagmired in the petty squabble for money and power with each other as the collateral damage.

[Chris Knight]

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past . . .
all time is eternally present.

- TS Eliot

His name was Thomas, too

It's too late for conscious thought. But Elizabeth, I think I will try go to in that direction. Helping even just one person, is reward enough.

Goodnight, all.

LBL

[Mark Culpepper]

Elizabeth, Andrew, LindaB,

This is a pure example of what I just posted on another thread. I was asking Paul there if there was a way he was saving all of these forum messages for the future, that I felt saving them all was important, that there was something odd and wonderful at work here and sometimes you don't even see it until later. So these interactions between forum members deserve to be kept safe somewhere because they somehow are registering something so special.

And this last interaction is a case in point. Read again everyone how each one of these individuals played off the other, reached an inspiration and then decided to " Go for it"

After all the discussions on the news and with other professional people where the future seems so bleak, you get here and Elizabeths message rings out like some sort of enormous wind chime. " If you can do it, then do it! If you can save one child! Thats what its all about , isn't it? If you can so something in a postive direction, then by Damned, DO IT.

Linda B. I would be enormously proud of you if you tackle this endeavor but win lose or draw I think your decision to go in this direction is what you are meant to do!

I just read these words somewhere else in the Forum and oddly they really are in my head this morning ( both in your life and in decisions that I am currently making for myself) Paul wrote that it was a favorite expression of Dr. Browns so I bring it up again

GO FORTH. MarkC

[H. Short]

I actually wrote the response

viewtopic.php?p=8327#8327

which got posted on page 4, not while composing at the keyboard, but over the course of a day and thought it was fairly logical and, for me, at least decently presented, and made my position on things fairly clear. Interesting how everyone who has commented on it has their own way of mis-interpreting things.

In light of all that, the thought has occurred to me that this could be a good example in using the group dynamics evidenced here to demonstrate molecular motion concepts; especially how efforts to induce motion in a fluid nearly always generates opposition, resistance, etc. I won't bother but its not a bad idea. For those of you who have forgotten, my first two posts here, on molecular motions concepts, were in response to Paul's request to discuss the possibility that "Electro-Gravitic Communications," is actually a means of communicating with "other dimensions." That's the reason for this thread being titled "E/G Communications and Quantum Physics", and being under the main topic heading of "The Science of Townsend Brown".

The impression I get from the responses that I've read - I admit to not having read all, is that most seem to think that my comments were about T.T. Brown's life, and not about how there seems to be a problem with how the story line of the book is being presented

The need for verifiable information is simply as validation for the underlying thesis or hypothesis of this book, which is that T.T. Brown's story is worth telling as he was intimately involved with the development of radical paradigm shifting technology amid a background of intrigue, super secret agencies, world spanning conspiracies, deception, and a touch of the supra natural as well.

Please note the emphasis is on the development of the story line (thesis) of the book, not the actual life.

Many have waxed eloquent while remonstrating with me about my failings of character because I can not believe in T.T. Brown's story, all the while either mis-quoting me or ignoring what was said entirely. This is what I wrote

I happen to believe that technology was developed and that Brown played a very important role in its development.

My original motivation for posting on this forum was to thank Paul for showing me the man who was probably the father of the class project 'submarine' that first captivated my imagination so long ago. Anyone who remembers my comments about that should at least have a hint that I certainly wish Paul well in his efforts to win the recognition Townsend Brown deserves. The reason I am somewhat adamant about insisting that the technology makes the whole story relevant (based upon the current story line...) is partly due to the process by which I became a firm believer in such technology. First came the submarine with a 'no moving parts' propulsion system. Then came Schauberger's Repulsine which demonstrated how such a propulsion system could be adapted for flight. Then came Paul's book and the revelation that T.T. Brown is the first person on record to propose such a propulsion system. Do you really think I don't believe he wasn't instrumental in developing such craft? But without that background I would be very skeptical and doubt very much that I would buy a book based on a story of intrigue and deception unless I could be shown the technology that would justify all that intrigue.

Now, before everyone starts off again please remember that I offered a scenario in which I would be interested in the story without the technology

If you can not deliver the technology then switch the perspective to something akin to 'Out of Africa'; have Linda as a narrator telling about what she knows and has learned of her dad. Instead of using the line 'Once I had a farm in Africa.', use something like 'My father once built a starship and touched the face of God.' Haunting and evocative to cover up the lack of hard proof of technology.

Now I realize everyone simply ignored this and acted like I never offered anything about an acceptable no-technology story because, as Rex informs me, everyone was simply green with jealousy; however, please note that I shamelessly plagerized that pilot guy with the touching the face of God part. So, it wasn't such a big deal, probably just due to a burst of cosmic rays striking as I typed. But it does give insight into the natural development of opposition and resistance (fyi: this is a reference to molecular motion concepts, in case anyone has forgotten), don't you think...?

If there are any questions or desires for further clairifications please refer to the

viewtopic.php?p=8327#8327

post, its all pretty well spelled out there if anyone will take the time to read it.

[Moderators note: the code for the links above was written incorrectly, but I've fixed it and they should work now. --PS, 070817]

[Trickfox]

Sorry H. Short , I don't quite understand your last post. The thread you posted does not work, and I'm not sure I understand your point of view here. Are you suggesting that Paul should write a book that would satisfy your requirements for proof of the technology?

I think I understand but I don't know what to believe anymore because I'm still sorting out the "Circuler Sphere" proof that Kevin posted in another thread. If you start asking for proof you might find yourself overwhelmed by the "Brownian motion" of our individual perspectives.

No seriously.... we are just having a bit of fun here.....

I happen to believe that technology was developed and that Brown played a very important role in its development.

Thats good H. but I'm still not sure I understand. What technology are you talking about?

Could be that this forum just has too many posts and points of view and I'm getting lost.


Trickfox

[H. Short]

But Andrew and LindaB,

No matter how bad it is , how poor the hospital is in that dismal area , isn't a hospital there worth more than none at all?

I've worked in and even run health care programs which in some ways were similar to the situation being described here. These are tough problems, in this case it might be best to hold your breath, count to ten, and then look at it again. Meaning you have to think the entire situation through. Undoubtedly you have a complete failure of leadership here, but if it has persisted for so long then the rot has probably become a systemic problem and superficial steps won't cure it. Remember that sometimes amputation is the only way to save the life, and sometimes even that fails.

Recertification is just one of the problems and if you can't bring the facility and its services up to par then in many ways it is best to not reopen it at all. By the very nature of their activities health care facilities have a profound effect on people's lives. If they are sub-standard and provide sub-standard care then this effect is insidious and is not anything anyone should attempt to prolong. A very large percentage of deaths in the United States are directly related to exposure to diseases at hospitals and mal-treatment by providers.

You need to prioritize potential services to the community and focus on those most needed. Obviously, as pointed out, there is a crying need for emergency care. What might be done is close out the operation as a general hospital; instead get the funding and the backing, and open a new emergency care center complete with emergency operating suites, recovery facilities, and other necessary support services: ambulances, labs, x-ray, etc. Focus on fast professional screening procedures, emergency treatment, stabilization, and transport to neighboring full care facilities. Only renovate and use those sections of the existing structure as necessary. Save the rest for future use by other possible health care related programs.

While you are doing this you can look for funding for other programs the local community needs. Stay focused and balance the needs of the community with the availability of funding. There is a lot of funding, it is possible to eventually rebuild the health care services offered to the community at a higher level than previously, but it has to be done right. Examine the potential of having a parent organization which supervises somewhat independent programs with their own funding sources, which are based in the old hospital structure. Sort of a consortium or co-op structure, where each complements and supplements the others if possible, but remains an independent entity paying overhead costs and costs for services to the parent and the other related programs. ** (Please note that I am NOT saying this should be a community run project. It most definitely should not. Yes, you need a lot of networking and interaction with the community, but at the most you have an advisory board with community members on it. Because the only way it can operate and be viable is by an independent pragmatic professional team. If you can't get an existing professional organization to take over, then you have to create your own.)

An example of how this co-operative structure could work can be seen by looking at what the natural response is going to be if you open an emergency center. Everyone will come to have their baby looked at because she started running a fever and won't stop crying at one in the morning. It is just a cold but there you are. First off, a basic definition of what an emergency is can be as simple as stating that if the patient is stabilized well enough to survive the trip to the nearest full care hospital facility and be in good enough shape to respond positively to treatment, then it is not an emergency situation for your emergency center. Transportation therefore becomes a major service, and it may as well include non-ambulance transportation capabilities for non-critical conditions that many will come to the emergency center for. In fact it would probably be critical for the success of the emergency center's operation, because you can not let the emergency center become overwhelmed by non-critical cases - yet at the same time you can not turn a blind eye to the needs of the public. A way to address this is to open at the same time a transportation service, either a brand new service funded by grants under the parent organization, or a cooperative agreement with an existing service in which they are provided with facilities and guarded parking lot space. In the case of the parent and baby, she is screened and determined to not have a life threatening condition; where upon the parent is offered the option of being transported to the nearest facility that can see them. Transportation will be to and from and in fact the option to provide them transportation back to their home if desirable should be available as a community service. A general out patient clinic is of course the preferred goal, but if it takes time to implement, then this is a type of intermediate measure that could be implemented, and even maintained after an opd is established since it provides an essential service.

The most important part of all of this is leadership, because it is not going to be easy and they have to understand not only what needs to be done but how to accomplish it. Support and training of staff is indispensable. The comment was made that the existing staff don't care. That is a direct result of being treated like dirt by superiors and institutionalized procedures of incompetence. It could very well be that most existing staff would be more of a detriment to a new program than not. But since most ancillary and support staff will probably come from the local community population, selection and training programs assume a very large importance here to make sure everyone is trained and motivated as well as can be done. For instance, especially if safety and security issues are important, in regards to the previously mentioned transportation service, that might very well be extended to staff and improve their situation and outlook considerably. Leadership has to understand things like this or you are right back to square one again.

Unfortunately the biggest barrier to developing a viable health care program is the morass of agenda driven sociopaths at all levels in our society who only care about how much of a sop they can grasp to enlarge their own miserable concepts of self-esteem. I don't know if it can be done or not, but you won't know until somebody makes the attempt - a well thought out attempt with the backing of not only local community members but related city, state, regional, and even national organizations as well.