The Final Word on Bill Moore...?

[Paul S.]

Well, we can only hope...

Last week I sent a message to Bill Moore informing him that his name had come up in our discussions here.

Here is his response, which arrived in via e-mail today:

- - - - - - -

From: Bill Moore
To: Paul Schatzkin
Subject: RE: They're Talking

People talk about me all the time. Some say only what they know to be true; some lack the ability to separate truth from fiction; and some prefer to deal in fiction because, for them, the truth simply isn't good enough. I certainly hope you won't prove to be one of the latter.

I have told you all I know about Brown. There is no hidden agenda, no hidden evidence, nothing held back. The only two members of the Brown family I ever met were Mr. and Mrs. Brown. If some other family member is upset, I cannot imagine why; nor do I particularly care.

I trust you will make every effort to create a factual biography of Brown that will be a true credit to his troubled life. Anything less will be seen as sheer exploitation.

Sincerely,
W.L. Moore

- - - - - -

I'm perfectly content to let that be the final word here on the subject, although I fully expect that others will have their own final words to add before the subject withers away once and for all.

--PS

[Victoria Steele]

Yes, well you can figure that I would have a few things to say.

He said " I have told you everything I know." (I don't know in what contest that flow of information occurred but if he has already "told you everything I know" .... then Paul .... we don't have to deal with his name then anymore, do we.)

I can tell that he doesn't much care about others opinions, obviously. But I had that figured too.

How does he even know that Browns life was "troubled". He didn't even know him. I don't need to discuss him anymore. But thanks for posting his letter. Victoria

[Mark Culpepper]

Ditto to Victorias. Mark C.

[Martin Calloway]

I read Moores response .... sort of .... "I got mine, don't care if anyone is upset over how I got it .... Now I don't want to talk "... (except of course to tell Paul that he needs to be careful to tell the truth. Right.)

Mr. Moore. Is that a promise? That we won't hear any more from you in the future? Or will you suddenly have more things to say once you begin to see a profit motive in this new material? Martin

[Chris Knight]

Hi All,

This is not about Mr. M.

I finally finished transcribing (translating ?) Carlos Allende's letters to Mr. M.

I put them at http://www.qualight.com/tpx/ in the new TPX section, because I thought you all might find them interesting.

Andrew

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

First of all Andy, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GOING TO THE TROUBLE OF TRANSCRIBING THESE IMPORTANT LETTERS. You gave me a chance to see the originals and I can see that getting those scrawled words on paper was not easy.

But now that I can actually read those words I have a few (mildly) comments.

First of all I am speaking about the first letter here so if anybody wants to join me here http://www.soteria.com/tpx/ca3-12-77.htm

Carlos says to Mr. William Moore here in a letter dated March 12, 1977

"Photocopy of your mis-informing "friends" missive ......... obviously mis-informant to quit drinking so hard ........." Now. Read the entire thing yourself please because I don't want to go into the translating business here . Its important for each of you to draw your own conclusions.

This is the conclusion that I have drawn. Allende is more than slightly upset that Moore s ""other source" has said some things that are inaccurate ... which means to me that previous to 1977 (March) Moore was drawing on information sources OTHER than Allende.??????

But in his book, when it came out .... did William Moore mention these other sources.?????

I would have to read the book again (groan) to be sure, so I encourage all of you who are more up to date on that material to wade in here, but my impression was that Moore presents Allende as THE WITNESS. Yet here, in March 1977 his "witness" is bitching to him that his "other sources" have it all wrong.

Interesting enough to consider mulling over, and getting more deeply into and certainly not possible to do without your help Andy. Thank you very much! Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

Remember we talked about this before. Who is going to ask the folks at the Conferrence what Mr. Moores current status with them is. Andrew? If I don't make it can you do that for me?

Still trying and hopeful and its kind of you to say that you would be "nice" to my special guy. (Its easy to like him and I am sure that this subject would be fascinating for him. Its not quite the same as "bringing him home to meet the family" but meeting up with all of you in Vegas would probably be close to the same thing.) Still, this position is important to me and I am in the situation right now of not wanting to rock any boats.

Besides, there are going to be more of these events, most likely. What I am looking forward to is the movie premier. Who would you cast in the role of Morgan? Just curious. And Dr. Brown? who would be best for him? I know I am flipping out into lalaland a little but its sort of fun . Victoria

[twigsnapper]

This could be considered an open letter to Bill Moore,

(which may probably be an exercise in futility. I believe he has traded his area of expertise from the Browns now to the Smiths of Salt Lake?) That should be interesting.

But lets dredge into the past just a bit.

Sir,
In your book you quoted a fellow by the name of Riley Crabb who made the connection strongly between Dr. Brown and your "Philadelphia Experiment".

Now looking up Riley Crabb turns into somewhat of a challenge. So I thought that I would ask you directly. Just who was this fellow? How did he present himself to you? And why would he be in any position at all to judge Dr. Browns involvement in such a project. The closest information I could reach through normal channels was that he was somehow involved with Borderland Press (and my, thats strange ... isn't that the same outfit that promoted Gerry Vassilatos' book "Lost Science'?)

I know that we will probably now hear from Victoria. She says she is finished chewing on your leg for information Mr. Moore. But I wouldn't count on that.

And perhaps one last comment. Perhaps when you targeted Josephine Brown as the "leak" regarding certain information, you should have taken more situations into consideration.

twigsnapper

[Victoria Steele]

First thing that comes up for me, first pass, is this:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys2/editrlss.htm

Riley Crabb, former director of Borderland Sciences Research Foundation (BSRF) has written a soft-cover booklet called "Sky Crash: The Best UFO Story in Years". This booklet is a rambling but very favorable review of the recent book "Sky Crash" (or "Sky Trash" as we call it), about an alleged UFO incident near an air base in England that occurred in late 1980.

Crabb begins his commentary with a quote from "Saucer Smear", Vol. 32, No. 4, in which we printed a wild rumor we had heard from a Washington, DC source, to the effect that "Star Wars" is secretly a joint US-Russian effort to repel invaders from other planets. The above-mentioned Rendlesham Forest (England) incident was given in "Smear" as one incident that convince the US and Russia to cooperate with each other. Crabb calls this "Smear" story "a piece of government dis-information deliberately leaked to the editor of a saucer zine widely read among flying saucer researchers."

Crabb may well be correct about the lack of truth in our "Star Wars" editorial, but he deliberately passes up our long editorial in the following issues of "Smear" (Vol. 32, No. 5) in which we, in painstaking detail, picked apart the Rendlesham story and showed that it was a minor event built into something very mysterious by money-hungry British UFO researchers. Crabb unfortunately suffers from a sever case of the Will to Believe. He picks out the evidence that tends to confirm his preconceived ideas, and ignores all evidence that does not. Pity!

Crabb can be reached at 2/16 Tamariki Avenue, Orewa, Hibiscus Coast, New Zealand. We plan to drop by the next time we are in the neighborhood.

NEW ZEALAND? Good choice, I guess, pretty place.

This is really dated material and I have already hit a reference that sounds like a comment on his death .... "Remembering Riley" but no details with it yet so I am holding that

So he was a Director of " Borderland Sciences Researches Foundation" ? Theres a start.

Mr. Twigsnapper? That last comment about Josephine was beyond interesting. What leak? Victoria

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

As well as time flys I guess .... Notice that this thread was started a almost
a year ago and still only has one page on it. Most of that is because Paul has avoided the subject of " The Philadelphia Experiment" entirely. I even had one interested reader say to me when I explained that to him “ But how can he do that .... The Philadelphia Experiment IS THE STORY. But you see how wrong that impression was when it came to the story of Townsend Brown!. That legend is just one small part and it’s a part that fits into the puzzled differently I think than anyone had ever considered !

Its getting easier and easier for me to see the strong possibility that most of that story was devised as a disinformation ploy. The fact that Townsend Brown was swept up in it , (I am beginning to believe more and more) was his own choosing ! if not HIS particular design.

Now there's a twist that some of the people (who have considered the Philadelphia Experiment from almost every angle) obviously have missed!

I think many really good researchers somehow felt it. ( Like Cook) but they couldn't quite put their finger on it. I think I have copied this section of Cooks book before but this small section shows you what I mean. He gets to this conclusion from the facts that he has seen, as we all do , so at this point he may have missed the whole of it But he is close!.

From page 137 of Nick Cooks “ The Hunt for Zero Pointâ€

[flowperson]

A red warning light for massive dis and mis information, not to mention that old favorite of the intelligence community's "misdirection", came on in my head. And Mr. Moore seems to be a class "A" dope to be taken in by all this. Snotty and arrogant also while I'm a it. Look who's work is likely turning out to have been fiction after all.

But then people (especially writers) hungry enough for money tend to bite on almost anything, or at least back then when less was generally known about the science behind it all. Of all the source material I've read on this site, Mr Beckwith's is the most realistic sounding to me. Wonder if any of the U.S. ships named for birds were in the Persian Gulf when the 15 Brits were snatched by the Iranians. Now you see 'em, now you don't

flow....

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Red lights for sure flow. (oh, bird names .... didn't the Navy reserve "bird names" for minesweepers?... my question is .... if the Royal Marines were in Iraqi waters when they were "captured" why weren't those Iranian ships detained by the Iraqis? and the other thing. Anybody notice that there was a prisoner released back to Iran just before the Marines were let go. We just haven't heard the real story and probably won't. But I can only hold one mystery in my head at a time!)

I have always wondered myself why Moore took an article that he had written PREVIOUSLY about Townsend Brown and placed it dead center in the Philadelphia Experiment. I can't find my copy any more but I believe that chapter was called " The Force Field of Townsend Brown" ( Which for many years was THE information out in the public about Dr. Browns work. He had contacted Dr. Brown and written what served as a short biography of his life and work.

(Remember thats the section that first interested Andrew Bolland in contacting Dr. Brown .( sadly Townsend Brown had passed away at that point but the communication then fell to Josephine and Linda. Andrew will tell you thats where his path on the Brown trail started) but I have gotten off my point................

And it was that chapter that connected Dr. Browns work to TPX which then obscured nearly everything that he had done UNTIL Pauls entrace into this situation.

Moore introduced a man by the name of Riley Crabb who he said "steadfastly believed tht Dr. Brown was involved in the project. He seems to be the only one who made that statement. Why its good to find out just exactly WHO Riley Crabb was and what his actual connection with Dr. Brown was. I suspect he was an agent in this disinformation campaign.

I totally believe that Dr. Brown was the mastermind behind that diversion. Material that might have been looked at seriously too soon ..... has been protected from scrutiny for the past thirty years. I don't yet know why. But that looks obvious now to me. Just my opinion, my two censts worth.

Did Moore now that he was being used in such a way? I truly doubt it but I would like to ask him.

You might also remember that Moore himself was very pleased with himself over "tricking" a senior scientist (obviously Brown) into "proofreading" a statement which included a falsehood Moore used as a ploy to judge the scientists reaction. Moore apparently was pleased that the "scientist" responded by saying that the paper was " substantially correct". Which I guess told him that the man HAD in fact been involved in such a way out experiment..........

Only thing is, we have learned from Mr. Twigsnapper that whenever Dr. Brown actually used that expression the proper translation was that there were holes in the story " big enough to drive a truck through".

Endlessly interesting but I am sure confusing to those of you who haven't been in on every turn of the conversations here on the forum.

Elizabeth

[grinder]

Paul,

I guess I never really looked at Bill Moores response to your messages. But looking at it now, I have to agree that he does seem to come across as ... well, endowed with the " I got mine. everybody else, including the Brown family, can go whistle." attitude. Thats not a real surprise. I just really thought " Nor do I particularly care" is a pretty revealing statement.

I don't want to assume too much but the Philadelphia Experiment must have been some kind of a success for him. Certainly kept his name out there. Anybody out there have any idea how many copies of that book were sold?

But that last comment is a puzzle. Nothing he wrote about Townsend Brown that I can remember really lists Townsend Browns" troubles" so why does he exhort you to do right by telling the story of his "troubled life"

He says that he told you everything? Was this a face to face meeting or had you just Emailed or written to each other when you got started in this project? Why do I get the feeling that he is holding out something?

I wonder what he is thinking of your attempts so far, Not that it matters any to me but after saying that he doesn't know any more about Brown at all he has sort of painted himself in the corner I think. Otherwise I'd be worried that he would be out there exploiting the additional interest that you are creating.

And I am curious too about Mr. Twigsnappers comment about Josephine and a leak?. What does he mean when Mr. Twigsnapper says to Moore "when you targeted Josephine" Sort of feels likeMr. Twigsnapper is laying something at Moores feet and that can't be good.

Am I wrong in assuming that? My impression is that I am very happy that I am not the one Mr. Twigsnapper directed that comment to. He just phrases that comment in sort of a dark way. Anybody else see that or is it just me?

It just strikes me as wierd. grinder

[Victoria Steele]

Hey grinder! Wierd is my word!

There are alot of "Wierd' things about the Philadelphia Experiment story just starting with the "two men from the Air Force" appearing to tell Moore about this person they had met. Turned out " that person" was a strange guy by the name of " Carlos Allende" or " Carl Allen" depending on what account you are looking at and what phase. Its Allendes story that evolves into the full fledged account of the disappearing destroyer.

Now as I recall Andrew Bolland recently bought some of those ORIGINAL ALLENDE LETTERS (to Mr. Moore.) I guess this exchange happened after the book was published because Allende is complaining to Moore about his "source" getting things all wrong. But Moore never mentions using another source to tell the Allende story . So what was that all about?

And Andrew. How did you get those papers? I think that you told us once but for the life of me I can't find that exchange! And the other question. So when you bought these papers did you get a chance to talk to Moore yourself? Did he have anything to say about the forum this time around. I notice that its almost been a year since this thread was put up.

And who started this again? Oh, Mr. Twigsnapper? I thought I was DONE with Mr. Moore but I guess not huh?

And Mr. Moore. If the rumor is true. What did you mean by calling Josephine the source of a "leak"? I never met the lady and I am taking offense to that already! Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Victoria,

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention here...

Interestingly enough, I had the urge one night to get on Ebay and do a search for the Philadelphia Experiment, and viola' some of Allende's letters and his seaman certificate were up for auction. An eye tooth or two later...but worth it, because of their historical value.

In any case, the story was that Moore had retired from the UFO arena, and had transferred all of his research documents to this fellow to go through and sell off. We emailed back and forth a few times, and since then, he has not released any more documents.

BTW, Allende's letters were from before the book was published, so he was commenting on the drafts. It seems Allende's complaints went unheard. Allende was apparently a very prolific writer, so I suspect I received only a small portion of the existing letters. I'll look into it further.

The letters I have are at: http://www.qualight.com/tpx/index.htm .