The Final Word on Bill Moore...?

[grinder]

No kidding. People actually have /had stuff regarding the Philadelphia Experiment for sale. ... thats sort of cool actually that you have those Allende letters. Its probably going to turn into proof that there was someone else supplying information about that Experiment. Someone that Moore was really listening to and maybe following orders from?

What about papers about Townsend Brown? Private letters that he might have sent people? That would be sure interesting! I didn't know there were people out there who collected those sorts of items. I'd be tempted too actually because I think he is really an interesing person.

I bet though that he'd be a little flustered at the thought of having a fan club! I know that he was a wonderful scientist and researcher but I wonder if he ever painted or sketched. Now THAT would be interesting to see. His renditions through an artists eyes. grinder

[Victoria Steele]

Andrew,

I guess if I get a chance to ask him someday my question to William Moore would have to be then " Who was your primary source if it wasn't Allende? And why did you present Allende as saying things that he obviously disagreed with? Allende seems quite certain that someone was leading you astray but you don't listen to him at all! Did you know what was happening all along? I doubt that you will ever answer that but its sure worth asking."

And again I mention the fellow named Crabb, who I have learned was a director of a place called Borderlands Research Foundation. I am assuming ( my favorite phrase) that Borderlands Foundation is also known as Borderlands Press. Am I wrong? And if I am not then when did you meet Riley Crabb? and why did you think he was qualified to speak with such authority about Townsend Brown? Was this other source actually Riley Crabb himself? If thats the case ( and I have a hunch that it is ... I could be wrong of course.) I would sure like to know more about that guy.

So anybody out there. Can you help? I have tried to look up Riley Crabb but I haven't gotten very far. Does someone know more? Can we put him on the "most wanted list" , even if its just me who is curious about him?

In case you are wondering where I am going with this. I figure if the Philadelphia Experiment was some sort of "disinformation ploy" then the person supplying the information to Moore (with or without his knowledge) HAD to be part of it. Right? Make sense?

Now that we know enough not to get drawn off our track by this story and distracted by it ( Remembering Mr. Twigsnappers wise story about the red herring scent and the hounds , I am trying to remember that the strong smell of red herring is not what I should be looking for. I am still hoping to catch the scent of our elusive fox, Townsend Brown.)

If I am off the mark here and should go sit down somewhere and shut up somebody say something! (Not that I will entirely listen to you! but hearing opinions out there is really important to me. ) Thanks.

Hey, is everybody on vacation out there or are you like me and just waiting for the next chapter?
Victoria

[Trickfox]

I'm waiting for the next chapter too.

Trickfox

[Martin Calloway]

So while waiting for the next chapter maybe this would be interesting. The URL is at the bottom of the page. Regarding how the "Philadelphia Experiment actually got started. Doing our homework I guess.

( Oh, and LindaB, in answer to your PM question ...... anything that has a reputation for staying in the air. Most usually though G4s. From Palm Springs an easy hop to nearly anywhere. Did you enjoy your short visit to the pilots lounge?) Anyway. Here is a note on your Riley Crabb:

Gray Barker tells us:
1. According to Riley Crabb:the annotated copy [of Jessup's book] was addressed to Admiral N. Furth, Chief, Office of Naval Research, Wshington 25, D.C., and was mailed in a manila envelope postmarked Seminole, Texas, 1955. In July or August of that year the book appeared in the incoming correspondence of Major Darrell L. Ritter, U.S.M.C., Aeronautical Project Office in ONR. When Captain Sidney Sherby reported aboard at ONR he obtained the book from Major Ritter. Captain Sherby and Commnder George W. Hoover, Special Projects Officer, ONR, indicated interest in some of the notations the book contained.

I first learned of the annotated copy when I was talking to Mrs. Walton Colcord John, director of the Little Listening Post, a UFO and New Age Publication in Washington. Speaking over the telephone, Mrs. John told me of a strange rumor going around to the effect that somebody had sent a marked-up copy to Washington, and that the government had gone to the expense of mimeographing the entire book, so that all the underlinings and notations could be added to the original text. This was being circulated rather widely, she told me, through military channels. She had not, of course, seen a copy of it, and didn't know too much about it, but somehow she seemed to connect it with an alleged Naval experiment wherein a ship had completely disappeared from sight. I couldn't make too much out of all this until later I also heard about the strange Allende Letters, which told of such an experiment in a most horrifying way.

The publication of the mimeographed edition is established, but I have been unable to confirm whether or not it was actually paid for by the government. It is established that the Varo Manufacturing Company, of Garland, Texas, actually produced the mimeographed edition. I have been unable to find out much about this company, except that it has been said that it engaged in "secret government work."
Apparently, Mr. Crabb in some way came into possession of a copy. [...] In his correspondence with me of September 24, 1962, Crabb clears up the mystery of how he happened to obtain a copy of the original Varo edition. It was the copy that the Navy originally gave to Jessup, and apparently was given to Crabb by Jessup. This copy, however, rather mysteriously disappeared in April, 1960, when Crabb mailed it to himself from Washington, and apparently he no longer possesses any copy at all. Crabb tells us:

"I understand that 25 copies were reproduced... Michael Ann Dunn, the stenographer who did the editing, explains why in the introduction. She's married now, living in Dallas, and won't answer her phone. [...] Varo, by the way, is a small manufacturing firm in electronics and up to its neck in space age business. Apparently it has succeeded in developing some kind of a death ray gadget, judging from a guarded press release of last fall when a group of Congressmen visited there for a demonstration."

See Adventures Chapter 24 for more details on the creation of the Philadelphia Experiment myth via the death of Morris K. Jessup.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cosmic_c ... o_1955.htm

Martin

[Trickfox]

It is established that the Varo Manufacturing Company, of Garland, Texas, actually produced the mimeographed edition. I have been unable to find out much about this company, except that it has been said that it engaged in "secret government work."

Varo company was started long ago. They invented the first "VARO TUBE"
which is an infrared image intensifying device.
They had an interesting logo:

Varo was split into two companies and I believe the name was sold to the Koreans, who now market cheap power tools under the VARO name. The Electro-optics division was sold to Litton Industries.


Litton Industries (formerly Varo Optical Systems)
Electro-Optical Systems - Garland Operation
3414 Herrmann Drive
Garland, Texas (TX) 75041-6188
USA
Tel: +1 972 840 5600
Fax: +1 972 271 2195
Web site: www.littoneos.com
http://maps.google.fr/maps?f=q&hl=fr&q= ... 9&t=h&om=1

(Production; Gen III upgrades)


PAT. NO. Title
5,506,402 Transmission mode 1.06 .mu.M photocathode for night vision having an indium gallium arsenide active layer and an aluminum gallium azsenide window layer
5,469,578 Night vision goggle headgear mount
5,467,479 Night vision goggle mount
5,457,310 Method and system for automatically correcting boresight errors in a laser beam guidance system
5,426,533 Apparatus for enhancing collimation and improving collection efficiency from high aspect ratio linear energy sources
5,355,224 Apparatus including a mangin mirror for superimposing variable graphical and alphanumeric information onto the image plane of an optical viewing device
5,329,347 Multifunction coaxial objective system for a rangefinder
5,218,194 Advanced high voltage power supply for night vision image intensifer
5,204,774 Night vision goggle with improved optical system
5,200,827 Head mounted video display and remote camera system
5,194,734 Apparatus and method for indicating a contour of a surface relative to a vehicle
5,008,657 Self adjusting matrix display
5,005,213 Head mounted video display and remote camera system
4,970,589 Head mounted video display and remote camera system
4,927,237 Universal night vision goggle adapter
4,902,895 Capacitive bolometer and method for detecting infrared radiation
4,887,887 Lens retainer for optical element
4,884,137 Head mounted video display and remote camera system
4,839,569 Method and apparatus for providing gain control for an image intensifier tube
4,835,381 Wide field of view radiant energy receiver
4,829,876 Aircraft missile launcher sway brace apparatus
4,820,031 Binocular periscope viewing device including triple prism for image splitting and elongate head column
4,811,163 Automatic power bus transfer equipment
4,809,942 Quick release night vision goggle mounting bracket
4,799,911 Image intensifier tube with integral CCD digital readout
4,794,430 Solid state reticle projector for a weapon sight
4,794,246 Universal passive night vision system
4,792,681 Infrared detector arrays
4,792,675 Diffused surface radiant energy receiver
4,786,966 Head mounted video display and remote camera system
4,778,990 Radiant energy receiving and directing apparatus and method
4,778,232 Rocker arm loader
4,766,610 Replaceable cushion liner for military headgear
4,755,725 High intensity light shut-down circuit for night vision goggle
4,754,385 Two transistor flyback switching converter with current sensing for discontinuous operation
4,753,378 Night vision goggle headgear
4,750,404 Aircraft missile launcher snubber apparatus
4,745,840 Modified missile launcher
4,745,278 Capacitive bolometer with improved responsivity
4,741,608 Turning mirror for integrating image and light indicator ray bundles
4,741,05 Chin cup for use with military headgear
4,737,023 Binocular periscope viewing device including triple prism for image splitting
4,736,669 Aircraft missile launcher mounting apparatus
4,703,879 Night vision goggle headgear
4,698,857 Light secure eyecup for use with night vision goggles
4,697,783 Quick release night vision goggle mounting bracket
4,687,879 Tiered thermoelectric unit and method of fabricating same
4,672,194 Passive proximity battery control circuit for night vision goggles
4,670,912 Adjustable night vision goggle mounting bracket
4,595,288 Method and apparatus for measuring deep mirrors

Or just watch the movie of one of their latest products:

http://www.nationalinfrared.com/x20/sho ... UAV3-4.wmv

Anything else you need to know about Varo before comming to any conclusions that there may be truth in these rumors?

Trickfox

[twigsnapper]

Such good work Trickfox! You would be a top notch hound, if you weren't already a fox!

And try this for just a little bit of sidebar information:

Note that there was a young Navy pilot who got his wings in 1956. He went on earn a wondrous reputation, leaving eventually as a Lt. Commander in 1966. In his spare time he happened to become a president of VARO of Garland Texas.... but later went on to found his own shop /// specializing in high voltage generating equipment. His name was Jan Collmer.

You might also note that high voltage was one of the specialties of Varo.

You know, these accomplished airshow pilots have a tendency to hang together so you would be suprised how much I can learn by doing the same. Just find one " Extra 300L" all warm and ready and you will find an interesting bunch of men with interesting connections. Jackie Cochrans name just might be mentioned.

There is a connection with a childs toy given by Martin Decker to a friends child. It was supposed to have come from some company in Texas. Ring any bells, I certainly hope, because thats all there is this time around folks . twigsnapper

[Mikado14]

Such good work Trickfox! You would be a top notch hound, if you weren't already a fox!

And try this for just a little bit of sidebar information:

Note that there was a young Navy pilot who got his wings in 1956. He went on earn a wondrous reputation, leaving eventually as a Lt. Commander in 1966. In his spare time he happened to become a president of VARO of Garland Texas.... but later went on to found his own shop /// specializing in high voltage generating equipment. His name was Jan Collmer.

You might also note that high voltage was one of the specialties of Varo.

You know, these accomplished airshow pilots have a tendency to hang together so you would be suprised how much I can learn by doing the same. Just find one " Extra 300L" all warm and ready and you will find an interesting bunch of men with interesting connections. Jackie Cochrans name just might be mentioned.

There is a connection with a childs toy given by Martin Decker to a friends child. It was supposed to have come from some company in Texas. Ring any bells, I certainly hope, because thats all there is this time around folks . twigsnapper

I see you pay attention too!

Mikado

[twigsnapper]

Yes Mikado, I pay attention. Its kept me alive, so far! twigsnapper

[grinder]

Who was it that said they pulled on a loose thread and a button fell off? Radomir? Mikado? Can't remember but wanted to give you credit for the visual that I am getting right now!

There is this "loose thread" in the story of the Philadelphia Experiment and we are pulling on it and the button just fell off! and I am wondering how many other pieces of this disguise are going to fall away the more we pull?

Great fun! This is just my medium here! Being a pest! Pulling on loose threads!

So who the hell is Gray Barker?

(Gray Barker says " according to RILEY CRABB the annotated copy of Jessups book was addressed to Admiral N. Furth, chief of Office of Naval Research")

Three individuals right there probably need to be kept track of!

So how are ALL of them connected to Townsend Brown? Wanna bet within three of or four broad jumps I can get from there to here!

Course I don't know anything about this Barker. Again, can anybody help out? Who is he and how does he come to know this Riley Crabb enough to quote him on anything? grinder

[grinder]

Gray Barker and Townsend Brown and this came up. Its an enormous alot of material but it just came up so easily and I don't really know why so I am marking this up as one of those cosmic jokes and following its lead!


http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/gravres2.html

Here are some cherries from this particular pie.

Danger Will Robinson! Some of the following information is serious,
and some is nonsense. Some of the things that might at first seem
to be nonsense, are not. And some things referenced below, which
come from serious credentialed scientists, are in fact nonsense.
Whatever the case, it's been included. Good luck sorting it out.
Understanding gravity is a matter of time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could it be that electric charge is a fundamental thing, and inertial
mass is merely a shadow of something primal, and what we know as a
gravitational field is merely the net result of other primary fields?
Geometrize it if you find it useful to do so, but please recognize that
defining gravity as geometry lends no information to the understanding
of its cause.

Of all the forces we know, there is none stronger than a paradigm.
-- Robert Stirniman----------------------------------------------------------------

Many documents on Gravitoelectrics/Electrogravitation refer back
to the 1952 Project Winterhaven. That project is said to contain
information on a Mach 3 Combat Disc. Also, have any records related
to other Projects with Mr. T.T. Brown been produced. I have seen his
Lab notes 1 - 3 - 4. I was looking for 2 - 5 & 6. Also, the Bahnson
et al Brown lab notes during his research days at Bahnson Labs in North
Carolina 1957-60 period or about. I have a poor chopped up Lab Video
on the subject. I'm looking for the full video the 45 minute one. Mine
is a mere 23 minutes.

I have yet to track down an original document entitled: "The Flying Saucer:
The Application of the Biefeld-Brown Effect to the Solution of Space
Navigation" by Mason Rose. This 50's document details how a flying saucer
operates. I have a copy of a re-write and it is outstanding.
And I'm also looking for a document as seen on SIGHTINGS TV entitled:
"PROJECT SILVER BUG" the 1955 USAF Flying Saucer Tests.
Also, seeking a copy of PROJECT WINTERHAVEN by Thomas Townsend Brown on
a MACH-3 Combat Disc. The British had a stake in as well as the USAF.
It to is from the 1950's.
-- James Hartman, CaluNET - Future Science Admin.
----------------------------------------------------------------

WELL EVERYBODY, LIKE I SAID ITS A BIG SITE and it goes on forever but these are pretty solid links to NASA and other qualified researchers. And I found it by looking for GRAY but never did find HIM. So whats up with that? grinder
_____________________________________________________________

[Mark Culpepper]

So while we are waiting I guess this is the area for all PHX notes and comments?

So, Paul. I realize that this James Hartman from CalUNET (?????) asked many questions that your site here could probably answer. Of course this posting might be old and he might have already figured it out. He asked about the journals from Townsend Browns work and I guess I can answer that with what I have learned already. That the Brown family maintains and has posession of all of the Lab notebooks from 1955 or so onward. ( Some copies were let out and resold by others without permission from what Andrew said and I can see how that might have happened.) But the originals according to Andrew are with the Brown family.

So the outside question is of course. Will they ALL ever be made available to the public?

And maybe he would like to sign on to one of the videos that you have made available Paul if he knew about your just making them available.

He says he is " Seeking a copy " of "Project Winterhaven" and I wonder if you had that too Paul.

So James Hartman, you still out there? Contact the forum? MarkC

[Mark Culpepper]

And here is something grinder that makes no sense to me. I wondered if Andrew or even Linda Brown can tell me if this is valid.

from that big site you just mentioned this comment:
http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/gravres2.html

As far as I know, the last thing Brown published before his
death was, "On The Possibilities of Optical-Frequency Gravitational
Radiation", 2/14/1976 and 8/30/1976. I don't know where it was
originally published. But you can get copy from:

Rex Research, P.O. Box 19250, Jean NV 89019

It is part of NR 046-BT2/B17-BRV "T. Brown: Petro-Voltaics"
(Gravito-Electric Conversion). Most people think Brown was just
into flying capacitors he was into much much more...
-- Bob Paddock


I find it interesting that something is out there FOR SALE but the original publisher is unknown? I don't know what those numbers represent. Bob Paddock, you seem to know something about this. Can you log onto our discussion here and join the forum?

and one more thing while I am pulling on loose threads. " stumbled onto this and if this is Gerry Vassilatos Victoria, maybe you have questions to ask him yourself <g>
"A man named Gerry Vassilator is an electrogravity experimenter.
Last I know (in 1991) he runs an information service called
MUUDO Experimental Videos
Delmar Ave
Staten Island, NY 10312.
(718)-356-9373. "

Who wants to be the first to call and find out. The thought (paranoid that it might just be is .... will I just be getting my name added to some sort of "watch list?" Thinking on that, but will probably call anyway. They will probably say ...... Gerry WHO?

MarkC

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Well Mark. I dialed carefully from an anonymous phone .... having to dial *82 first to get through and of course the Canadian sounding gentleman ( just my impression, no proof) said I must have the wrong number. So save your phone time folks. Its a dead end.

I suppose the entity MUUDO Experimental Videos on Delmar Ave in Staten Island is ...... not working out either?

Again, wouldn't you think that someone who SAYS they are interested in electrogravitational research would keep track of what is happening out here and would make the moves to contact us? Instead of this confounding search under every rock in the streambed? Unless of course, there is a good reason for that? Elizabeth

[grinder]

My impression is Elizabeth .... that you or anyone looking for Mr. Gerry Vassilastos is knocking on a VERY dark door. I have a feeling that you already know that. You are just going slow here so that you won'd loose us newbies to all of this.

Lets see. I am not as good at free association as Mark is. But he said he used that as a teaching skill. Asking his students to free associate through a problem. So. Maybe it will work for me. My free associations are never very long though. I don't fly ... I like .... hop.

Gerry Vassilatos ..... published by .... Borderlands Press ...... chaired by Riley Crabb ..... who happened to say to Gray Barker ..... that this information was passed over to Admiral Furth? ..... GEE look at where I am! The beginning of the myth of the Philadelphia experiment. Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! ( throw the best Gomer Pyle accent on that because thats whats in my head.) grinder

[Trickfox]

Mark, Did you notice this list of subjects that is claimed to be in that Electric propulsion study?

"Twenty First Century Propulsion Concept", by R.L. Talley of
Veritay Technology Inc, East Amherst NY. Prepared for the
Phillips Laboratory, Air Force Systems Command, Propulsion
Directorate, Edwards AFB. May 1991.
This number is at the top of the cover page: PL-TR-91-3009

can be obtained from the "Defense Technical Information
Center" (DTIC). Cameron Station, Alexandria VA 22304, 800-225-3842

YA RIGHT!!!I'm sure..... But look at the subject tittles

Someone has given me more food here (things in bold):roll:

I. INTRODUCTION ...................................... 2
1.1 Background and Theoretical Developments ....... 4
1.2 Measurement ................................... 6
1.3 Force Fields .................................. 8
1.4 Chirality - Odd Number Space-Like Dimensions .. 11

II. THEORIES .......................................... 13

2.1 Introduction .................................. 13

2.2 General Framework of Theory ................... 14
2.2.1 Born - Infield ............................ 17
2.2.2 Lande' .................................... 19
2.2.3 Podolsky .................................. 20
2.2.4 Corben .................................... 21
2.2.5 Flint ..................................... 21
2.2.6 Ingraham .................................. 21
2.2.7 Arctan Potential .......................... 23
2.2.8 Milne ..................................... 24
2.2.9 Williams .................................. 25

2.3 Development of 5-D EM Equations ............... 27
2.3.1 Modifications to Maxwell's Equations ...... 33
2.3.2 Lorentz Forces in 5-D ..................... 36
2.3.3 Wave Propagation in 5-Space ............... 38
2.3.4 Limits to Conversion Rates ................ 40
2.3.5 Reduction to Newton's Laws - PPN .......... 41
2.3.6 Thermoelectric Potentials in Gravity Field. 43
2.3.7 Field Vectors and Equations in 5-D ........ 44

2.4 Conservation Laws ............................. 47
2.4.1 Conservation of Energy .................... 48
2.4.2 Conservation of Linear Momentum ........... 50
2.4.3 Conservation of Angular Momentum .......... 51
2.4.4 Conservation of Parity .................... 53
2.4.5 Conservation of Pseudovectors ............. 54
2.4.6 Conditions for Non-Conservations .......... 58

2.5 Vacuum Fluctuations ........................... 60
2.6 Quantum Considerations ........................ 62
2.7 Compatibility of 10-D String Theories ......... 68
2.8 Mach's Principle .............................. 69
2.9 Rosen's Bi-Metric Theory ...................... 72
2.10 Non-Conservation .............................. 74
2.11 Particles in 5-D Spaces ....................... 76

III. EXPERIMENTS

3.1 Approach to Selection of Experiments .......... 78
3.2 Radiation Pressure ............................ 80
3.3 Biefeld-Brown Effects ......................... 83
3.4 Conductive Submarine .......................... 88
3.5 Gravitational Rotor ........................... 89
3.6 Spin Aligned Nuclei --
Magnetic and Rotational Alignment ............ 90
3.7 Non-Inductive Coils ........................... 94
3.8 EM Transparency of Conductive Media ........... 100
3.9 Magnetic Loop ................................. 101
3.10 Speed of Light in a Mass Flow ................. 103
3.11 Charged Torque Pendulum ....................... 105
3.12 Thermoelectric/Gravitational Effects .......... 107
3.13 Binary Pulsar ................................. 107
3.14 Proton Scattering ............................. 107
3.15 Inertial Mass Variation ....................... 107
3.16 An Improper Experiment ........................ 108

IV. CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS .................. 110


Paul, Do you think that you can get a hold of this study?