NOTEPAD for RANDOM IDEAS

[FM No Static At All]

I don't want to throw cold water on a good mystery here but you see we have tried carefully to keep eroneous information and disinformation from creeping into the history of Thomas Towsend Brown's work with others.

If you have a source of information that describes this relationship between Van Neumann, and Tesla,....AND Thomas Townsend Brown, -then you have a responsibility to seek evidence which could prove that your source is not making this up. If you cannot divulge your source, you have to think about telling us why you would believe such a person.

Otherwise I am tempted to believe only Linda Brown's version of her father's relationship with such important physicists of those decades.

Trickfox

The Philadelphia Experiment
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/monta ... lfia_1.htm

My source is ex-USAF and his father was ex-CIA. He also has ongoing relationship(s) with others that have worked at Lawrence Livermore, SRI, and other compartmentalized projects with classified statues. I believe him because in the 13 years that we have known each other and become close friends, he has never lied to me about anything, not even in jest.

T. Townsend Brown was NOT part of the Philadelphia Experiment as I know of the "facts" but was bothered by something/someone involved in that project. Von Neumann did not dislike T.T.B. in fact it is possible that he never met him or only knew of his works through those very same compartmentalized projects.

Figure out where Aleister Crowley fits into this puzzle and it will get even weirder if that is at all possible. He (Crowley) mentions a few of those British gents that were involved in intelligence ops before, during, and after the war (WWII) and even mentions Ian Fleming as being one of those intelligence people. He also mentions Intrepid (Stephenson?) in a few of his texts. His autobiography/diary is a tough read as is his Qabalah, but entwined within the banter is real science.

I find that there are at least two or more groups that were working on very similar technologies during the periods that we have been discussing here, and I am looking at which one the Caroline Group was affiliated with, or opposed to.

Without opening up another deep well to explore, it is my feelings that much of what is still unknown (or kept that way) may involve secrets uncovered by the Nazis in the 1930's. Such as being on the Moon or at least orbiting that far back.

Knowing that Otis T. Carr was hawking flying disk, anti-gravity devices and which he said he learned from Tesla, it is not surprising that Germany would have been way out there even at such an early date.

Thank you Mr Trickfox for making me look deeper into all the covert ops to see what rings true and what seems like spin.

Trust the force Luke! -Obi Wan Kenobi

Fred

[Paul S.]

my two cents is we should get our own wiki space that is under our collective management. Even "attached" to this site if that is technically possible. I've seen some inter-personal politics play out over at the other place that makes me shy of placing all our acorns in that basket.

But perhaps I should give them benefit of the doubt, what say ye all? (We could always just back up somewhere else just in case...)

Paul, your thoughts?

R.

I think it's an interesting idea, I think it should be done under this space if possible (generating interest in the book, eventually, you know?), but I still haven't quite wrapped my brain around how it would work. I should look at the PESWiki page again, I guess.... if you think that might be an serviceable model for what we might do.

What hesitance you might be picking up is only one of the technicalities involved. My toolkit is already stretched just keeping the forums together (still smarting from the guy who blew me off for being "stupid" because of the byzantine registration procedure).

There are SO many threads, tangents, curtains, dark corridors, etc down in this rabbit hole that having a better way of organizing it all would certainly beneficial. But the paramount question remains:

How do we organize it all?

--PS

[Linda Brown]

Trickfox is right Fred. What we are looking for most here is " clear water". I encourage all of you to double check all of the sources that refer to knowledge of Townsend Brown . ( And that includes me!)

Things that I have told Paul, where I have been able to, I have backed up with journal notes or other witnesses to the fact. You have to look at Dads life from very many angles before you actually get a true vision of what was going on and I will be the first one to say that I didn't at the time have a well rounded viewpoint. I just loved and trusted my Daddy. Sounds simple enough.

But in the world that is going to say over and over ..." Well, do you even have a shred of evidence that ANY of this even happened" all I can do is encourage others to please step forward and tell Paul YOUR version of what was going on, in your own words. There were many things my Dad did not discuss with me. I think that through my eyes you can see the sort of person I believed him to be. And through my Moms actions you can see the kind of love and regard that she had for him... and the trust that she had in what he was doing.

But we certainly did not know everything.

What I don't want to see happen though, here I agree with Trickfox, is for some other sources to put out information that has no solid backing behind it. Because then readers rely on rumor and sometime wild imaginations ... and that will not do service to those who put so much forward in a solid sense.

So ... back to your "source", Fred ..... can you share who it was? Do you absolutely believe what he has said? There might be much that we can learn, if we know at the same time that the information is on solid ground.

(edit, edit !!! Thanks for your post . we seemed to have crossed messages in the aether! Let me look through that ..... comments later!!!)...later...<g> this is a great comment ... and I sense that we might just know who might be standing here in our own forum who is the solid link, one from the other.

"He (Crowley) mentions a few of those British gents that were involved in intelligence ops before, during, and after the war (WWII) and even mentions Ian Fleming as being one of those intelligence people. He also mentions Intrepid (Stephenson?) in a few of his texts

You mean someone who might have worked with Ian Flemming under Admiral Godfrey? Someone who was William Stephensons boxing partner for workouts? Someone who knew enough about ferrying messages for the British that he knew about the high pressure chamber that Winston Churchill used to use ... and the name of the engineer who designed it? Someone who was a master in hand to hand knife fighting and knew about the numbered knives used by the Jedburg teams? Someone who is pictured with Townsend Brown in Paris during the vacuum tests done there? Someone who just happened to know that I had a dream about a big dark brown gelding that I would call Shadetree? That someone? <g> Linda



Thanks in advance for your efforts! Linda

[Trickfox]

Can you tell us more about Alister Crowley and his relationship with science and physics, and how did you find this link with Von Neuman, Tesla, and Brown?

I am interested in knowing about this because in general people like Alister Crowley are usually described as elitists and they generally have a hard time being associated with a search for the scientific truth.

In his own writtings "do what thou shalt...shall be the whole of the law" is the first and most important tenant Crowley promoted. That means "lie and decieve if it means you will win the struggle for survival". It smells evil.
But then who am I to judge, I like Marilyn Manson.

Nazi conspiracies, The search for the treasure of the Arc of the covenant and the holly grail......

Yup , we have been there and done that long ago.

Trickfox

[AM]

The great worth and contribution of Mr. Schatzkin's work is in my opinion his guiding motto: "Just the facts, ma'am".

It may not be always one continous march from wonder to wonder, but perhaps real wonders are something else than what it seems at the first glance.

One should be extremely careful when venturing into the area of claims that cannot be cross-checked from at least two (independent) sources.

And this is what Mr. Schatzkin has been trying to do i. e. "for starters lets just forget about all the fancy stories and start with the facts."

There has been so many stories build up around Dr. Brown's life by various people that sticking to facts and playing it cool and sober is of vital importance. And I think Mr. Schatzkin has been doing a splendid job.

Look, I don't want to disparage anyone - I am just saying that certain areas are extremely delicate and should be treaded with caution.

Just my five cents.

AM

[Linda Brown]

Was it Peroxide that John Lear said the aliens needed to be " dipped in?" Something like that. Years agao he hit the talk show circuit with what people at the time called " The John Lear Hypothesis". Look it up if you want to and you might see some of the early seeds which are sprouting now in the link to the ""Philadelphia Experiment" that you have given us Fred.

I have to admit I have a hard time keeping my eyes from rolling back ( one of Morgans expressions when he encountered a shade of John Lears ideas. There is only so much of all of this one can take. ESPECIALLY when the people involved have a tendency to set themselves up then as high priests or priestesses ..... and it is all so very hard to tie down to earth and not fanciful projections that I really find myself losing patience with most of it.

But some are entire enamored of all of this. John Lear himself told me that I should find a safe place in the desert, enjoy the time I had with my family, because the entire human race was doomed, had been sold out to the aliens by renegade humans and that actually it was all over except for the whimper. Remember that John? You still hanging out in the desert? Is your gold mine played out yet? Your father and mine were good friends so I don't understand why you have gone in this direction. When ... if there is going to be danger out there shouldn't we get out from underneath the covers and do something about it?

Sorry, Got carried away on another thread there for a moment.

What I am trying to say is that I see all of this unfounded speculation and I see the danger because it is a diversion. And it pulls our attention away from other areas that are begging for attention. And it makes it so hard to see what is important when it is so covered by all of this alien dipping stuff. Linda

[Trickfox]

That's another interesting observation AM....but I'm wondering which areas you are speaking of that are considered "delicate".

Are you speaking of Aethism, Elitism, Fashism, Satanism or plain old Hedonism.....?

Perhaps all of the above, or none of the above?

Quoting Micah and the bible seems to indicate to us that you have a Christian psychogenesis. Are we correct to assume that you are at least a Deist?

How do you feel about eartern or oriental religions?

Trickfox

[Linda Brown]

Why do you ask Trickfox? Linda

[Trickfox]

Interesting subject..... I like finding out where the roots of a person's psychogenesis are burried in a social context. most people in the west have a Judeo Christian upbringing, however the new generation we observe as emerging in the west is ready to accept and adopt nearly any philosophy or logical psychogenesis, and this is partially due to the enormous variety in basic belief systems now emerging in the west.
Flowperson and I have exchanged a few PMs on the subject in the past also. Flow was a regular on the "comparative religions" forums as well.

As time goes by, I get to think a lot about these things myself.

Trickfox

[AM]

The Mica-quote I found in an unpublished manuscript of Otis Carr freely available on the internet. I liked it very much, because it represents an ideal to strive for and a reminder of how much one has to change in order to be worthy of receiving true knowledge.

I used the generic term "delicate areas" in order not to offend Mr. No Static, whose opinion I respect and whose post I find a valuable contribution. But since you asked, I will be specific: Crowley, Nazi-related conspiracies, Philadelphia Experiment, etc.

This all smells too much of Al Bielek, Montauk, etc. There may be some truth in all these stories, but they are so heavily overladen with "the Greys from Zeta Reticuli like strawberry ice-cream" coating that I think one would have to use a disproportionate amount of time and effort to sift out the truth.

Look, everyone can write a book with juicy stories, a catchy cover and advertise it.

What Mr. Schatzkin is trying to do is far, far more difficult. And much more precious, if I may say.

Quoting Mica and the bible seems to indicate to us that you have a Christian psychogenesis.

Actually I hold the Jewish tradition in a far greater esteem than Christianity.

How do you feel about eartern or oriental religions?

I will answer your question in the following way: If I could live in three separate bodies at the same time, then I would like to be an orthodox Rabbi, an orthodox Brahmin, who is secretely an Agama-sadhaka and a traditional Confucianist, who is covertly a Daoist.

AM

[AM]

Unfortunately I did not have the privilege of being born Jewish, Indian or Chinese in this life. With Chinese I mean the Chinese as they were in the Tang-dynasty.

AM

[Trickfox]

LOL.....Great..... I understand you well...

Trickfox

[natecull]

There are SO many threads, tangents, curtains, dark corridors, etc down in this rabbit hole that having a better way of organizing it all would certainly beneficial. But the paramount question remains:

How do we organize it all?

At a first cut, I'd like a simple encyclopedia summarising the information we believe to be on solid ground (and perhaps marked ones for speculation generated by this group), with entries for each person, place, group, technology jargon word, etc. Also a timeline of at least years. Linking off to Wikipedia when it comes to 'uncontroversial' public domain facts.

But I suppose that might mean there'd be one huge entry for 'Thomas Townsend Brown' and a flurry of tiny ones for everyone else...

Still, it would be nice to be able to look up, eg, 'Lifters', 'Vega', 'sidereal radiation', 'Naval Research Laboratory', 'William Stephenson', '1958' and so on.

[Victoria Steele]

Oh, Boy! A chance to grab on to William Moores trouser leg again. For those of you who are new to this forum I initially got interested in the work of Townsend Brown by reading things that William Moore had written. But his style really threw me and upset me. I wanted factual information not all this suppositon about this ... all those ....." this MAY have happened ... and " some SAY that "..... and ,( sorry FN, )there was alot of " I've heard that" involved too . And that really tweaked my hide.

So when I heard about this forum I headed for these discussions with both guns loaded, no kidding. If this Schatzkin character was going to pull another " Philadelphia Experiment" type book out of the air I was really going to go after him. For some strange reason by then I had learned a bit more about Townsend Brown and had even witnessed a demonstration of his " flying discs" ( Mark Bean, Laughlin UFO conference, forgot the year, but trust me, it was wonderful.... He even made the statement that he felt that Townsend Brown would prove to be more important than Tesla in our age and realizing how important Teslas electrica system has been to all of us that really made an impression on me)

So I wanted to hear the real story which I figured would be fascinating ( nothing but) and I was absolutely right!

I think I probably did turn into a pain in the arse to Paul but thats only because of my enthusiasm <g> and I hope that I actually helped more than I hurt the process. You know. He always knew that I was waiting, like some red headed vulture, next chapter, next chapter, next chapter. Thursday Paul, Thursday Paul? I kind of miss that now actually!

Just so you all know where I stand.

So when Linda Brown mentioned John Lear. ( and its SO NICE being able to hear from her directly!) I typed up John Lear Hypothesis just like she wrote it. and this is what I came up with. My, my my ... look at all of those familiar names.And note how information leaks and is presented to a very gullible public.

http://yawp.com/3rd-i/rsrc/gloss/l/lear_j.html

Just do me a favor everybody and cruise through a few of those names so when you see them bandyied about as " sources" you will have a little more wisdom on your plate.

Victoria

[Paul S.]

Still, it would be nice to be able to look up, eg, 'Lifters', 'Vega', 'sidereal radiation', 'Naval Research Laboratory', 'William Stephenson', '1958' and so on.

I agree, it would be interesting and useful to create another way of organizing this information, of cross-referencing things, etc.

Would it defeat the purpose if it was a moderated type of thing, i.e. somebody standing in the wings to accept (or reject) new threads or topics, or would it be better if it was entirely "self organizing" (I think you can probably guess where I'd stand on that proposition.

I'm going to contact my host service on Monday and ask them what ideas they might have about establishing a platform. We've already got MySQL running on these servers, it might be a relatively simple matter to layer a Wiki platform on it.

Also, while I'm here, I've been reading the input about 1958 and finding it all very interesting. A busy year, that one.

And also a nod to Trickfox for standing up for the integrity of what we try to do around here, i.e. separating facts (a very finite commodity ) from fiction (of which there seems to be an infinite amount).

And finally (for now): I remember 300-baud modems. I got my first modem in 1979. I remember the first time I downloaded data from a server some where. I thought that was pretty damned amazing, regardless how "slow" it was a the time. And then... 1200 baud!

Yeah, I think this "Internets" thing is going to catch on.

--PS