The Caroline Group

A general discussion re: the (secret?) consortium which seems to have influenced the life and work of Townsend Brown

Re: who would YOU

Postby Mikado14 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:05 am

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:I just reread that question Mikado and I think you might have missed what Mr. Twigsnapper was actually asking. ( easy enough to do I have had similar problems!)

What he asked .... look .... is ..... Who would YOU pick. Not who HE would pick. Does that make some difference? Elizabeth


No, I believe I have it correct. He is asking for a list of individuals that I would choose to sit at the dining room table. But in looking over the posts previous to that, we were discussing the 144 hypothetical elements that would be needed but we don't have that many known. I interjected that I see a way around that and somehow or another he asked me who I would pick or choose to sit at the table.

However, my concern quickly went to the "what if it were built, would we have the wisdom to use it wisely?". That is when I might have interjected the broad spectrum of individuals...now, if he wants only those that could build it....I think that would be easier.

Mikado

PS: I already know the answer to my own question and it hit me prior to hitting the "submit" button. The wisdom should be there before it is built. I hate the way I learn at times. <g>
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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rasier but

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:55 pm

Mikado you said

"However, my concern quickly went to the "what if it were built, would we have the wisdom to use it wisely?". That is when I might have interjected the broad spectrum of individuals...now, if he wants only those that could build it....I think that would be easier. "

Thats the whole point of this entire situation. If Twigsnapper had a group that could build it, (without understanding anything more than that , it would have ( perhaps was) built years ago .)..... but those to " use it wisely" Well perhaps it has been a waiting game for those individuals to show up on the scene. Elizabeth
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Re: rasier but

Postby Mikado14 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Thats the whole point of this entire situation. If Twigsnapper had a group that could build it, (without understanding anything more than that , it would have ( perhaps was) built years ago .)..... but those to " use it wisely" Well perhaps it has been a waiting game for those individuals to show up on the scene. Elizabeth


Good morning Elizabeth!

That is the story of my life, watching the pot boil.

What is the measure of wise?

With experience comes wisdom but the container that holds wisdom is a lazy eight so what is the barometer to say that that is enough wisdom to make that choice? I do not think of myself as wise but then others, at times, seem to think I am, just luck in my opinion for tomorrow I will be wiser than today. My experience has taught me that wisdom is conservative for there is much truth in the adage that haste makes waste.

Which now brings me to my point. When will the time be right? By what scale do we measure the amount of wisdom to make those choices? Is the time now or is it close and by close, again, what measure?

So many questions but what to do?

Make a selection, make a choice and discuss the situation, perhaps with the diversity sitting at the table, the total wisdom will be greater than the sum.

Mr. Persistence.....remember?

Mikado
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not unlike

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:52 pm

A situation not unlike the first Philadelphia Experiment. Paul is familiar with that one. The situation is strikingly similar. Elizabeth
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Postby flowperson » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:50 pm

In western culture owls are the symbol of wisdom.

In ancient Israel, the female gender "sophia" was the symbol of wisdom. The high priests were tasked in their roles to place themselves in the attitude of the female in order to receive the divine messages from above. This attitude was called the "shekinah" and it was represented by the concept of "shining light". The messages came in the form of divine "arrows" or "mishkan".

In the sub-asian continent the "naga" or snake has traditionally been the personification of wisdom.

Moses was said to have had a "brazen serpent" (brass) on the tip of his staff which could help him perform magical feats...like curing poisonous viper bites instantaneously. He also was said to have horns of "shining light" protruding from his head when he came down the mountain after confronting the burning bush and receiving the law of Torah.
Moses...the first man for all seasons ?

Go figure !

flow.... :wink:
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Postby kevin.b » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:04 pm

Mikado 14,
Try to consult the nine ladies.
http://www.paleothea.com/SortaSingles/Muses.html
There are nine of them , they prefer to be near wells.
As a dowser I detect points where water is close to the surface, that point is where to dig your well.
They are uplifting points, literally.
The water from those points will be very positive, litterally.
Emitting joyfully will be the muses, they have all the wisdom of past ,now,and future.
There are nine of them that dance in a circle around the well, as do the fairies.
Kevin
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Postby kevin.b » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Mikado 14,
Should have added, watch the moon, its half a moon here at the moment, the muses like half a moon, it draws them out to play.
Elizabeth helen drake,
Did Dr Brown build a huge cross shaped detector in the desert?
If so where is it, and what alignment is it fixed to, hopefully it can be turned , though in his notes he wanted to bury it , to shield it, if its to compass N,S,E,W its wrong.
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cross shaped

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:56 pm

kevin,

a cross shaped antennae in the desert , buried .... right outside of Indio California .... but heres the rub kevin . 1951 Elizabeth
Last edited by Elizabeth Helen Drake on Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby flowperson » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:25 pm

Elizabeth..."INCIO" or "INDIO"

flow.... 8)
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sometimes

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:28 pm

Sometimes I am dangerous at the keyboard. INDIO. Thanks Flow. Elizabeth
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Postby flowperson » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:44 pm

I'll bet that you're PRETTY dangerous anywhere... at anytime .

flow.... :wink:
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Postby kevin.b » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:06 pm

Elizabeth helen drake,
I have had an interesting time trying to find old incio.
tinkerbell.
http://www.igpp.ucsd.edu/PDF/PFO-2005.pdf
Kevin
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Postby flowperson » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:50 pm

Hi All

Something a little different here. This was posted on the comparative religion site that I also frequent. I just thought that you all would like to know just what the young man that the OSS gave the gold watch to during WWII is thinking about and saying these days. Enjoy !

Hey Paul and Elizabeth, I'm aware that this is a gross violation of copyright laws, but I'll just scream FAIR USE if anyone asks for my opinion. Maybe His Holiness is a reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson...maybe ?
flow....

My Vision of a Compassionate Future
By The Dalai Lama

Sunday, October 21, 2007; Page B01

Brute force can never subdue the basic human desire for freedom. The thousands of people who marched in the cities of Eastern Europe in recent decades, the unwavering determination of the people in my homeland of Tibet and the recent demonstrations in Burma are powerful reminders of this truth. Freedom is the very source of creativity and human development. It is not enough, as communist systems assumed, to provide people with food, shelter and clothing. If we have these things but lack the precious air of liberty to sustain our deeper nature, we remain only half human.

In the past, oppressed peoples often resorted to violence in their struggle to be free. But visionaries such as Mahatma Gandhi and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. have shown us that successful changes can be brought about nonviolently. I believe that, at the basic human level, most of us wish to be peaceful. Deep down, we desire constructive, fruitful growth and dislike destruction.

Many people today agree that we need to reduce violence in our society. If we are truly serious about this, we must deal with the roots of violence, particularly those that exist within each of us. We need to embrace "inner disarmament," reducing our own emotions of suspicion, hatred and hostility toward our brothers and sisters.

Furthermore, we must reexamine how we relate to the very question of the use of violence in today's profoundly interconnected world. One may sometimes feel that one can solve a problem quickly with force, but such success is often achieved at the expense of the rights and welfare of others. One problem may have been solved, but the seed of another is planted, thus opening a new chapter in a cycle of violence and counter-violence.

From the Velvet Revolution in the former Czechoslovakia to the popular pro-democracy movement in the Philippines, the world has seen how a nonviolent approach can lead to positive political changes. But the genuine practice of nonviolence is still at an experimental stage. If this experiment succeeds, it can open the way to a far more peaceful world. We need to embrace a more realistic approach to dealing with human conflicts, an approach that is in tune with a new reality of heavy interdependence in which the old concepts of "we" and "they" are no longer relevant. The very idea of total victory for one's own side and the total defeat of one's enemy is untenable. In violent conflicts, the innocent are often the first casualties, as the war in Iraq and Sudan's Darfur crisis painfully remind us. Today, the only viable solution to human conflicts will come through dialogue and reconciliation based on the spirit of compromise.

Many of the problems we confront today are our own creation. I believe that one of the root causes of these manmade problems is the inability of humans to control their agitated minds and hearts -- an area in which the teachings of the world's great religions have much to offer.

A scientist from Chile once told me that it is inappropriate for a scientist to be attached to his particular field of study, because that would undermine his objectivity. I am a Buddhist practitioner, but if I mix up my devotion for Buddhism with an attachment to it, my mind will be biased toward it. A biased mind never sees the complete picture, and any action that results will not be in tune with reality. If religious practitioners can heed this scientist's advice and refrain from being attached to their own faith traditions, it could prevent the growth of fundamentalism. It also could enable such followers to genuinely respect faith traditions other than their own. I often say that while one can adhere to the principle of "one truth, one religion" at the level of one's personal faith, we should embrace at the same time the principle of "many truths, many religions" in the context of wider society. I see no contradiction between these two.

I do not mean to suggest that religion is indispensable to a sound ethical way of life, or for that matter to genuine happiness. In the end, whether one is a believer or a nonbeliever, what matters is that one be a good, kind and warmhearted person. A deep sense of caring for others, based on a profound sense of interconnection, is the essence of the teachings of all great religions of the world. In my travels, I always consider my foremost mission to be the promotion of basic human qualities of goodness -- the need for and appreciation of the value of love, our natural capacity for compassion and the need for genuine fellow feeling. No matter how new the face or how different the dress and behavior, there is no significant division between us and other people.

When I first saw a photograph of Earth taken from outer space, it powerfully brought home to me how small and fragile the planet is and how petty our squabbles are. Amid our perceived differences, we tend to forget how the world's different religions, ideologies and political systems were meant to serve humans, not destroy them. When I traveled to the former Soviet Union in the late 1970s, I encountered widespread paranoia, even among ordinary people who feared that the West hated them so much that it was ready to invade their country. Of course, I knew this was mere projection.

Today, more than ever, we need to make this fundamental recognition of the basic oneness of humanity the foundation of our perspective on the world and its challenges. From the dangerous rate of global warming to the widening gap between rich and poor, from the rise of global terrorism to regional conflicts, we need a fundamental shift in our attitudes and our consciousness -- a wider, more holistic outlook.

As a society, we need to shift our basic attitude about how we educate our younger generation. Something is fundamentally lacking in our modern education when it comes to educating the human heart. As people begin to explore this important question, it is my hope that we will be able to redress the current imbalance between the development of our brains and the development of our hearts.

To promote greater compassion, we must pay special attention to the role of women. Given that mothers carry the fetus for months within their own bodies, from a biological point of view women in general may possess greater sensitivity of heart and capacity for empathy. My first teacher of love and compassion was my own mother, who provided me with maximum love. I do not mean to reinforce in any way the traditional view that a woman's place is confined to the home. I believe that the time has come for women to take more active roles in all domains of human society, in an age in which education and the capacities of the mind, not physical strength, define leadership. This could help create a more equitable and compassionate society.

In general, I feel optimistic about the future. As late as the 1950s and '60s, people believed that war was an inevitable condition of mankind and that conflicts must be solved through the use of force. Today, despite ongoing conflicts and the threat of terrorism, most people are genuinely concerned about world peace, far less interested in propounding ideology and far more committed to coexistence.

The rapid changes in our attitude toward the Earth are also a source of hope. Until recently, we thoughtlessly consumed its resources as if there were no end to them. Now not only individuals but also governments are seeking a new ecological order. I often joke that the moon and stars look beautiful, but if any of us tried to live on them, we would be miserable. This blue planet of ours is the most delightful habitat we know. Its life is our life, its future our future. Now Mother Nature is telling us to cooperate. In the face of such global problems as the greenhouse effect and the deterioration of the ozone layer, individual organizations and single nations are helpless. Our mother is teaching us a lesson in universal responsibility.

The 20th century became a century of bloodshed; despite its faltering start, the 21st century could become one of dialogue, one in which compassion, the seed of nonviolence, will be able to flourish. But good wishes are not enough. We must seriously address the urgent question of the proliferation of weapons and make worldwide efforts toward greater external disarmament.

Large human movements spring from individual human initiatives. If you feel that you cannot have much of an effect, the next person may also become discouraged, and a great opportunity will have been lost. On the other hand, each of us can inspire others simply by working to develop our own altruistic motivations -- and engaging the world with a compassion-tempered heart and mind.

The 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, is the spiritual leader of Tibet. Since 1959, he has been living in Dharamsala, in northern India, the seat of the Tibetan government in exile.
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thoughts worth keeping

Postby James Barrett » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Of course, all of it was wonderful reading but I grabbed on to this

"Many of the problems we confront today are our own creation. I believe that one of the root causes of these manmade problems is the inability of humans to control their agitated minds and hearts -- an area in which the teachings of the world's great religions have much to offer

Why is it so hard ,I have wondered, for people just to value religion for what he has stated above instead of trying to constantly convert each other or punish each other for belonging to the " wrong" religion.

If we create the problems then we have the ability to dissolve the problems. " control their agitated minds and hearts" A well turned and remembered phrase. JDB
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Re: thoughts worth keeping

Postby Mikado14 » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:52 pm

James Barrett wrote:Why is it so hard ,I have wondered, for people just to value religion for what he has stated above instead of trying to constantly convert each other or punish each other for belonging to the " wrong" religion.



My money and this might be more than a nickel, is that mankind when following a belief system arrogantly believes that they are correct and that others are wrong as you pointed out. Would not those believers than be committing a wrong? Oh yes, I forgot.....zealots.

The question comes up, and what do you (insert: follow, believe, practice, adhere to, etc)?

Mr Tenacious posing as Mikado
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