Mr. Twigsnapper and all,
I have started this post . I am not sure why other than the fact that it is obviously going to be needed. I just read your last message about the "duck and cover" situations that most kids had to go through ( I was one of them) I can remember honestly thinking, "Yes .... this will work"
Mr. Twigsnapper. Obviously you and my Dad were involved in much more than just hiding under desks. You were very kind to give me a glimpse into his training during WWII .... all things that none of us had ever known and I wanted to thank you again for that. There are grandchildren too who thank you because our entire family now can fill in blanks .... and big blanks like that, are hurtful when its only your imagination that fills them.
My daughter for example has bloomed suddenly into a historian! Where did that passion come from? It was not there several weeks ago! But when she realized what her Grandfather had actually done, and where he had been, all the lights turned on! So I must really thank you for that. I am a teacher ... its a response that I pray for in my students and I am quick to see it in my own family. And I know it was your simple decision to share information that started her on that trail. For her, it was like being touched by lightning.
So I have started this post. Maybe she and I can prevail upon you for more information. Thankyou. Mark C.
THE COLD WAR
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twigsnapper
- Revered Elder
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:25 pm
- Location: mobile
looking at it from all sides
I appreciate the interest. Its good to have a blooming historian in our midst and I mean that in the most complimentary of ways. A phrase not especially turned in that direction!
To your daughter, Mark. Try to put yourself on the ground there in Germany (or France ) after the war. Think basically ..... rubble ..... People just wandering around because they had no homes standing, no where to go. Lost from their families many of them. No economy, no jobs.
And the Soviet cities were not much better, in fact many times worse. People were hungry, they didn't have adequate clothing, many were sick and there was no medical help except in very few areas. And the weather the winter of 1946 was ..... unimaginable.......... And the following winter, even worse. Most of the finest young men in Russia were dead. Someone once estimated that some 20 million people had died in Russia alone. Others said the war cost close to 56 million lives, at least half of them were civilians.
Compare that condition now with what was happening in the United States. Nearly 300,000 servicemen and women had died , but there was no damage and no fighting on American soil. The economy of the United States DOUBLED during the war. What brought Europe to her knees actually made the United States the power that she was to become.
So you can see quickly that there was suspicion in Europe over what Americas actual objectives were. A helping hand? When the Marshal Plan was announced for "economic recovery" was it going to be that or was it really "masked agression?" The Russians moved to grab as much territory as they could, The United States moved to politically block that movement. They called it a policy of "Containment"
The only reason I mentioned all of this and your Dad can tell you more interesting particulars I am sure. But understand when you move to "contain" a nation. That puts an extreme importance on your intelligence gathering sources. Its sort of like Dams that could break. You have to watch the entire line of dams all the time. You have to quickly become an expert on dams! And thats what happened. The groups like the resistance and the Jedburgs acted as patterns for the intelligence networks that followed. Everybody spied on everybody.You needed a program just to figure out who the players were!
And not many people in the United States even had an idea of what was going on. After all, right? the war was over!
So when you hear "Cold War" that's sort of a thumbnail sketch.
Twigsnapper
To your daughter, Mark. Try to put yourself on the ground there in Germany (or France ) after the war. Think basically ..... rubble ..... People just wandering around because they had no homes standing, no where to go. Lost from their families many of them. No economy, no jobs.
And the Soviet cities were not much better, in fact many times worse. People were hungry, they didn't have adequate clothing, many were sick and there was no medical help except in very few areas. And the weather the winter of 1946 was ..... unimaginable.......... And the following winter, even worse. Most of the finest young men in Russia were dead. Someone once estimated that some 20 million people had died in Russia alone. Others said the war cost close to 56 million lives, at least half of them were civilians.
Compare that condition now with what was happening in the United States. Nearly 300,000 servicemen and women had died , but there was no damage and no fighting on American soil. The economy of the United States DOUBLED during the war. What brought Europe to her knees actually made the United States the power that she was to become.
So you can see quickly that there was suspicion in Europe over what Americas actual objectives were. A helping hand? When the Marshal Plan was announced for "economic recovery" was it going to be that or was it really "masked agression?" The Russians moved to grab as much territory as they could, The United States moved to politically block that movement. They called it a policy of "Containment"
The only reason I mentioned all of this and your Dad can tell you more interesting particulars I am sure. But understand when you move to "contain" a nation. That puts an extreme importance on your intelligence gathering sources. Its sort of like Dams that could break. You have to watch the entire line of dams all the time. You have to quickly become an expert on dams! And thats what happened. The groups like the resistance and the Jedburgs acted as patterns for the intelligence networks that followed. Everybody spied on everybody.You needed a program just to figure out who the players were!
And not many people in the United States even had an idea of what was going on. After all, right? the war was over!
So when you hear "Cold War" that's sort of a thumbnail sketch.
Twigsnapper
Last edited by twigsnapper on Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark Culpepper
- The Dean
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am
deep blue
You know, my daughter came up with something very interesting the other day . She has taken it upon herself to study the messages that Mr. Twigsnapper has sent. And this is what she has noticed. (Please note that I missed the clues!)
She says that Mr. Twigsnapper must be English. (not only English ... but having to do with the English Navy.) How did she get there? Because Lisa said when Mr. Twigsnapper messaged about Dr. Brown in Coronado and those messages were flashing back and forth about the fish eating the pea ... he knew about the DUMAND project, which was a US Navy project. She says that to have been working with Dr. Brown as an "escort at the English communications center, and knowing about the racetrack next door, that he HAD to be English.
I admit, she is starting to make sense , and this is BEFORE Mr. Twigsnapper confided to Trickfox that he was not born in this country. And besides, she adds with a smile ..... double o 7 was an English commander , right?
So how about that for a homegrown super investigator! Mr. T? Is she close? Mark C.
She says that Mr. Twigsnapper must be English. (not only English ... but having to do with the English Navy.) How did she get there? Because Lisa said when Mr. Twigsnapper messaged about Dr. Brown in Coronado and those messages were flashing back and forth about the fish eating the pea ... he knew about the DUMAND project, which was a US Navy project. She says that to have been working with Dr. Brown as an "escort at the English communications center, and knowing about the racetrack next door, that he HAD to be English.
I admit, she is starting to make sense , and this is BEFORE Mr. Twigsnapper confided to Trickfox that he was not born in this country. And besides, she adds with a smile ..... double o 7 was an English commander , right?
So how about that for a homegrown super investigator! Mr. T? Is she close? Mark C.
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twigsnapper
- Revered Elder
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:25 pm
- Location: mobile
grey ponies
Mark, Please tell your daughter that I appreciate her interest, but alas, I am not English.
When I was about her age, maybe a tad younger than she is I got a chance to learn to ride on a grey pony that belonged to my Uncle. The pony was stout and tough and could keep up with anybody cross country. He could jump anything I set him at and he was typical of his breed.
Little sister, think about that for awhile and you will realize that I have just told you where I was born. No need to broadcast it. But when you figure it out just tell your Dad. Later the information will become useful to him. And you are a brilliant girl. Remember to always come into your fences straight and with plenty of impulsion. Twigsnapper
When I was about her age, maybe a tad younger than she is I got a chance to learn to ride on a grey pony that belonged to my Uncle. The pony was stout and tough and could keep up with anybody cross country. He could jump anything I set him at and he was typical of his breed.
Little sister, think about that for awhile and you will realize that I have just told you where I was born. No need to broadcast it. But when you figure it out just tell your Dad. Later the information will become useful to him. And you are a brilliant girl. Remember to always come into your fences straight and with plenty of impulsion. Twigsnapper
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Elizabeth Helen Drake
- Sr. Research Asst.
- Posts: 1742
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 am
stumbling again
Everybody,
I just happened to find this topic amongst all of them that have been written. The messages are quite a few months old but now the story has sort of caught up . I thought that Mr. Twigsnappers exhange with MarkC and his daughter Lisa was worth bringing to the top of the list. And remember we are near the end of the war in Pauls story so what is mentioned here really centers around the next couple of years. Mr. Twigsnappers comments and insights are wonderful. Enjoy and if anyone of you out there has a thought on this subject PLEASE join us!
Elizabeth
I just happened to find this topic amongst all of them that have been written. The messages are quite a few months old but now the story has sort of caught up . I thought that Mr. Twigsnappers exhange with MarkC and his daughter Lisa was worth bringing to the top of the list. And remember we are near the end of the war in Pauls story so what is mentioned here really centers around the next couple of years. Mr. Twigsnappers comments and insights are wonderful. Enjoy and if anyone of you out there has a thought on this subject PLEASE join us!
Elizabeth
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Mark Culpepper
- The Dean
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am
Where has the time gone?
Paul and Elizabeth,
I got to give it to you both. You guys are dedicated.
Did you realize that I created that THE COLD WAR thread nearly a year ago? Unbelievable. But now look how appropriate the subject is? This being ahead of your time is hard!
Lisa continues to do well in her studies and her riding. She and Blinker are looking forward to quite a show season and they are working as a complete team, thanks ,Lisa says (and I totally agree) to Linda Brown and her continued interest and support. The first blue they get is yours Linda! New horse is doing well too, following in very good hoofprints.
And Mr. Twigsnapper. I remember that you said you had your " note to your family" in process when I last mentioned it. I hope that your relationship goes well beyond finding that note someday wrapped around the hilt of that commando knife, as my sister and brother and I found. You never really responded to my plea for you to do more than a note. And its not my place, but speaking from the other end of the note, being able to sit down and talk with my Dad would have meant so much more. Respectfully submitted. MarkC.
I got to give it to you both. You guys are dedicated.
Did you realize that I created that THE COLD WAR thread nearly a year ago? Unbelievable. But now look how appropriate the subject is? This being ahead of your time is hard!
Lisa continues to do well in her studies and her riding. She and Blinker are looking forward to quite a show season and they are working as a complete team, thanks ,Lisa says (and I totally agree) to Linda Brown and her continued interest and support. The first blue they get is yours Linda! New horse is doing well too, following in very good hoofprints.
And Mr. Twigsnapper. I remember that you said you had your " note to your family" in process when I last mentioned it. I hope that your relationship goes well beyond finding that note someday wrapped around the hilt of that commando knife, as my sister and brother and I found. You never really responded to my plea for you to do more than a note. And its not my place, but speaking from the other end of the note, being able to sit down and talk with my Dad would have meant so much more. Respectfully submitted. MarkC.
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Elizabeth Helen Drake
- Sr. Research Asst.
- Posts: 1742
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 am
following Dr. Brown
I don't exactly know what Paul is busy typing right now.
With the material I have seen developing, its bound to be interesting.
I do know that, for Dr. Brown at least, his adventure behind the German lines is now pretty much over though I am sure most of us have all kinds of questions about where he was sent and what his condition was and, maybe also, what was it that was so important to him to be there in the first place! Lots of unanswered questions!
I noticed that Mr. Twigsnapper had written sort of a short note to Lisa and I thought that I would include mention of it here. Its earlier in this thread, written May 14, 2006. So, its been sitting there actually waiting to "meet the moment" of the story. So its really worth reading.
Back up a few comments if you have the time and read what he has to say about the condition of Russia and Germany just after the war. Sometimes the loss and the hardship is beyond our comprehension, for reasons that he noted.
Elizabeth
With the material I have seen developing, its bound to be interesting.
I do know that, for Dr. Brown at least, his adventure behind the German lines is now pretty much over though I am sure most of us have all kinds of questions about where he was sent and what his condition was and, maybe also, what was it that was so important to him to be there in the first place! Lots of unanswered questions!
I noticed that Mr. Twigsnapper had written sort of a short note to Lisa and I thought that I would include mention of it here. Its earlier in this thread, written May 14, 2006. So, its been sitting there actually waiting to "meet the moment" of the story. So its really worth reading.
Back up a few comments if you have the time and read what he has to say about the condition of Russia and Germany just after the war. Sometimes the loss and the hardship is beyond our comprehension, for reasons that he noted.
Elizabeth