Part II Begins Here

[wdavidb]

Hello, this is David Barclay on Salt Spring Island

I have been reading some of the threads and it reads like a great detective story, a lot of fine work has gone into this group effort.

I only hope that I might be able to make some small contribution.

I did notice the reference to hunters who keep an eye on the bunch of us, which is a whole subject unto itself. I have had some personal experience in this respect and it is my opinion that this is something which has to be considered in attempting to understand Dr. Brown's life and times.

There are elements to this sidebar which you may not have considered, as the character or rather the nature of those persons given the responsibility of protecting highly secretive and classified programs are not your normal intelligence operatives. These men and women exist in a world of their own and can be considered in a very general sense, not nice people. So there is an element to the atmosphere in which Dr. Brown worked that would have had a very real, but not necessarily positive, influence over his attitudes and behavior.

Something to chew on for sure.

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Welcome David,

I would certainly agree with you that some of the "intelligence officers" surrounding Dr. Brown were certainly characters that might indeed be considered dangerous, at their weakest moments.

Paul has many pictures of Dr. Brown and the fellow that was "assigned" to the family during the years 1962 into 1964. He is mentioned in Pauls Chapter named " Closing Ashlawn". Every picture I have ever seen of Charles Miller showed an extremely athletic, extremely wary and unsmiling individual. On the other hand, when shown in the same frame you will find Dr. Brown smiling and at ease.

Now that might present an odd situation, if we are to consider that these "unsmiling types" were exerting any kind of pressure on Dr. Brown. They seem to be carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders while Dr. Brown is tanned, smiling and relaxed. Does this fit the scenario that you believed was happening?

Thank you so much for logging in. Your thoughts and participation are welcomed in advance!

And to others out there with your fingers hovering over the keys. Jump on into this pool! The water is fine! Elizabeth

[grinder]

I totally agree with you David. However there are different ways of looking at the same situation.

I can see that this "Charles Miller"character was probably not at all a "nice" person in any sense of the secure- warm- in- your- bed -at -night type existance. Men like him were probably trained and skilled in martial arts that would make them quite deadly. I expect that they usually lived alone, or separated from their families. Many of them ( like MarkCs father) probably left their families behind without much of an explanation. Many of them lived in rugged and awful conditions, accustomed to sleeping with just perhaps a pancho, spending long hours alone on their assignments. Ever watchful.

Who would feel comfortable having a person like that in your home?

Well, ask a Marines wife. grinder

[wdavidb]

Thankyou for the welcome

I am sure the gentleman did not smile and I assume he kept Dr. Brown safe at all times, but from my own experience there is more to this than might meet the eye.

So what I am suggesting is that if Dr. Brown had an understanding of the duties involved in relation to these characters, it would be difficult to believe that this would not have had an effect on his psyche, despite outward appearances to the contrary. But then again he may have been kept in the dark about a lot of things.

Personally I would not want one of these characters in my home, but that is just my opinion.

There was a question raised in respect to some of the work and projects which Dr. Brown may have been associated still remaining classified after 60 years or more. This is not unusual as some of Dr. Brown's work may have applications beyond the perimeters of his own projects. Something he may not have been fully aware of.

If my guess is right on this, they will remain classified for some time to come, as the associated research and development is still active.

There is an aspect to this cloak and dagger business which is not generally known or understood, but I do not wish to detract from your points of view, which I respect.

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

David,

I would like very much to hear of that other element you speak of. And the fact that it may differ from my particular view is what makes it all that much more valuable.

Mr. Twigsnapper has already told us that while he was assigned to Dr. Brown in 1945 he had been given instructions to shoot Dr. Brown to death if it became apparent that they were going to be over run and captured. That was a standing order. Mr. Twigsnapper added that he believed is still a standing order where sensitive material (and the people who handle it) is concerned. Is this what you were speaking of?

I recently had a young man tell me that was one of the reasons that he turned down a decoding position with the military. The armed MPs, he said, were there to protect him/project or shoot him if that became impossible. He decided to take up another position and I don't blame him.

Mr. twigsnapper said on one of his posts that Townsend Brown knew very well the position that he as his aide and "armed escort" was in .... and yet he still went. Generally smiling.

If there is another element that hasn't been brought to our attention I would really appreciate hearing your impression of it. Don't worry about going off course, or going counter to our viewpoints. We have learned to find our way back to the main trail and you never really know what is worth the trip off the trail. Thanks so much , Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

David

I think things that have been kept classified for 60 years eventually starts to trickle out sometimes. Maybe those "Secret keepers" figure that we will end up finding out eventually what the real secrets are,...-so they just twist the truth a bit to allow you to understand that history changes slowly and events occur without causing paradoxal pertubations in the time lines.

Besides, I kinda like the movies MIB and MIB2.
I know hundreds of people who think "Black world" employees have a really cool job.

I mean...I'm just an underpayed Janitor right now, but if I had to pick my own job I would love to be that "Area 51 scientist" in the movie "Independance day"(Dr. Brackish Okun). You know the one who says "Sorry...they don't let us out very often" (played by Brent Spinner)

I mean wouln't it be totally cool to be working on the most important technology on earth?

trickfox

[wdavidb]

Thank you Elizabeth and Trickfox

Yes, Elizabeth that is what I was coming to........I have unfortunately had some experience with the Mr. Millers and I know how and why they are chosen for the job. Yikes.....used to give me nightmares, now it just makes me angry.

Trickfox, I would not want to shatter your fantasy, but you would not find it cool........you would hate it with great disgust.

Like a lot of men, Dr. Brown I am sure put up a good front, but such a situation cannot but effect one to some degree.

It simply draws a big red circle around Dr. Brown and highlights the importance of his work. Not just for what he was doing, but what others could do with it.

[wdavidb]

What I mean by what others could do with it has to do with the bigger picture, as most programs operate in isolation and are not aware of other applications to which such secret work might be applied.

[Trickfox]

Trickfox, I would not want to shatter your fantasy, but you would not find it cool........you would hate it with great disgust..

You speak as if you have worked in this type of position my friend.
Why are you so convinced?

[Trickfox]

There were also programs run in Canada and some of those are not going to be declassified in the future.........they are activiely protected even today after more than 50 years..

I live in Canada and I think you depend a bit too much on the confusion behind the issue that those who need not know are probably not interested because the work is too complex anyway.

most of the time classifications are assigned to "the data". Ideas by themselves are too hard to hide because you can find them in open literature. Right?

I mean you don't really believe the big brother conspiracy that says all the books and all the literature is screened and controlled to remove any trace of "an idea"? Right?

Trickfox

[wdavidb]

Unfortunately I have had personal dealings with the intelligence community and we are not pals.......far from it.

I do not think you want to hear about any of that, it is ghastly horrific subject matter. But I will say this, I am an active advocate for survivors of cold war experiments which date back to the late 40s and despite the cold war ending I believe they are still running today.

[wdavidb]

All but a couple of the programs run in Canada, which involved human experimental subjects remain classified and will not be declassified in my life time or in the life time of my children.

[wdavidb]

Trickfox, I am not sure if I am getting your drift completely.......science in general is to some degree politically controlled, no ifs or buts.

That is why we are tied to the wheel in terms of our industry and economy.

Take for example the nuclear agenda, which is touted as the energy of the future..........the experimental reactor being built in Europe for example. It maintains a justification for nuclear activities and leaves no room for an alternative perspective.

It might surprise or even shock many to discover than atomic energy is a total failure, as there is no energy gain. Atomic energy cannot itself be extracted from the nuclear fuel, what is extracted is a potential of resistance which results from a differntial in energy relative to the system of reference. Resistance is the opposite of energy.

So in effect there is political control over science, there always has been. Whether during war or peace, we are at the least planning for the next war.

[wdavidb]

Sorry for being so thick.........after reading it three or four times I get it, the data..........of course the data is protected and not the idea.

The ideas are not generally that original anyway, but the data is, especially if no one else has attempted to find out for sure what the actual results would be.

I get your point, but in one instance we have a now defunct military base completely classified, including supply and service records and it is actively protected 50 years after the fact.

[Trickfox]

Ya .....so let's just look up the data when it comes time to develop our idea. By then we will have established our need to know. Who's going to stop you from reading books at the library?

Trickfox