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The Caroline Group

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:54 pm
by Paul S.
Earlier this morning (Aug 3, 2007) Mr. Twigsnapper posted some ruminations on the general subject of "The Nature of the Caroline Group." I cannot move individual posts to different threads, I can only move threads into different topic sections. So I have started a new topic "The Caroline Group," and begin the discussion by starting this thread and pasting Mr. Twigsnapper's post in here:

twigsnapper wrote:
may be putting this in the wrong thread but here goes anyway.

This is on the topc of " What is the Caroline Group" " Does it even really exist" and " if it does, what are its traits" could it be called a " consortium?"

Interesting enough topic I think and the time is now I guess to broach it.
Strangely, you all have spoken of this before so all I am going to do right now is refresh your memory about this particular thread.

And Paul. If I am in the wrong area here, I don't know, I imagine you can move me?

You can find this discussion in the " General Discussion" area also

a few interesting comments:

"One of the best ways to investigate an operation is through the money they make and the money that they spend. So how would a "consortium" like this finance itself. It can't surely be all voluntary. And how would they maintain such absulote secrecy?" Follow the money" is the old saying.
I have found all of the information coming out about Townsend Brown astounding. But maybe I shouldn't. This is the time where we will all be learning about history left behind, history poorly written, history diverted. And that, when you add it to the story of interesting individuals. Well ......... it all becomes somehow more HUMAN and not just dry facts off of pages.
Personally, I am not a scientist. One of your other posts mentions that he is not interested either in the scientific side of all of this (though, that has to be fascinating too, if we could all understand it.) What pulls at me is the emotion involved in getting caught up in all these forces. So I can't wait to see what comes next.
One question. If a person were to "buy into" the concept that there might be a "Caroline Group" out there. How old do you think it really is Elizabeth? I recognize that this "consortium" has been called the "Caroline Group" in honor of the experience Dr. Brown had on that magnificent ship... but do you have any idea if THEY considered themselves by a certain name?
And forgetting what they might have called themselves. Who would be the members? All men? Sort of a Knights Templar type arrangement? But I don't get the feel that this is a mens private club, not with Twigsnappers call to "Remember the women" . So thats my first couple of questions

And the word " consortium was used again by the man who developed the Ironic Breeze. He told Paul that Dr. Brown had met with a "consortium" of scientists in Florida and then Dr. Brown very quickly " folded his tent" of association with him, leaving him with the sage advice " If you can fix the Ozone problem ( speaking of the fan) "Then you will really have something" Well, that never quite happened.........

but the reason I am mentioning this is that the same thing actually happened with the fan ( Ionic Breeze) as happened with the lifter through "trandimensional " Both technologies were " handed over" to other entities and this " consortium seems to have had something to do with it , if you look hard enough. This is not an association that is going to be lying on top of the sheets. twigsnapper

You all talk amongst yourselves now... <g>


New Topic, A Few Ground Rules

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:21 pm
by Paul S.
OK, here's what I've done.

After reading Twigsnapper's post this morning (which I haven't even read in its entirety yet, I've been so frantically moving all this stuff around...), I started not only a new thread, but a new top-level topic as well.

This way, I could group under this topic heading a couple of previous threads that got started on this subject, per Victoria Steele's post here:

As you can see, I have moved the two older threads mentioned there to this new topic, but I have LOCKED them so that we can keep any future discussion of this subject in THIS thread.

I also see now that I'm reading it that Twignapper references a third thread "Consortium" which has now been similarly handled. Moved here, and locked.

If you read something in one of the earlier (now locked) threads that you think warrants further discussion under this thread, then go to that message, click on the quote marks, then copy/paste what appears between the {quote}{/quote} brackets into a reply in THIS thread and post your new comments there. Please do NOT 'submit' your reply under the old thread (which, oddly, the system will let you do even though the old threads are "locked").

Now, I still have not gotten around to implementing the "MODs" to this BBS software that I thought of months ago (anybody remember the "Golden Threads" discussion?) So this new topic works like all the others: anybody can create a new thread under this topic.

But I would encourage you all to keep your discussion of this topic -- "The Caroline Group" -- under THIS thread. Please e-mail or PM me if you think you want to start a new thread under this topic, OK? You don't want to go typing a whole lot of stuff just to have me delete it, right? OK, good...

The floor is now open...


this is great

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:40 pm
by grinder
This is great Paul . Thanks.

I think I have found a " Caroline Group" fingerprint in a quote from A. L. Kitselmans "Hello Stupid"

To those who are new, "Beau" Kitselman wrote "Hello Stupid" sometime in 1962 and in it he talks about the life of Townsend Brown and his interaction with Dr. Brown during the "Pearl Harbor demonstration" (which Paul just wrote about in Chapter 63. Great title!))
[or here: --PS]

Heres the fingerprint part folks

"Admiral Radford witnessed a demonstration. B. was well treated by his Navy acquaintances, who were of course immensely proud of him, but the demonstrations were still rather primitive, and no scientists appeared. We all thought the millennium was at hand, but it wasn't. Actually, this sort of thing had been going on for years, for even though B. was more of a shrinking violet than a bold promoter, every now and then his friends would try to get somebody interested.

Finally B's friends began to get under way. They rang doorbells all over the country for him - in the academic world, in the business world, and in Washington. B. gave demonstrations by the dozen, but the force was still quite small, and little interest was aroused. Finally, since scientists in America seemed to be in the state of the walking dead, it was arranged for B. to go to England and France and continue his search for a conscious scientist. He had a pleasant trip, received some encouragement, and was 'written up' in international air-and-space magazines."


His " friends" arranged that Paris trip? Stop for a moment and think what that implication is! WHO Paul ?... arranged for that trip? I think when you find that " friend of Townsend Brown" you will find a proven agent of the Caroline Group.

And by finding out more of how all of this was "arranged "you get a better view and understanding of the nature of this group. Great to have a place for this guys. Thanks. Comments? grinder

Ionic Breeze Interview

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:06 pm
by Paul S.
I note now that Twigsnapper references my interview with Jim Lee, who obtained the patent that The Sharper Image turned into the ubiquitous Ionic Breeze air purifier.

Find the two-part article starting here:


door bell ringing

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:14 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
So Paul, when you got that anonymous E mail, looking back on the results of that message ( nearly five years later and 63 chapters) do you ever look back on that message and wonder seriously if someone " rang your doorbell?"

"As I was putting the finishing touches on the Farnsworth biography, I was wondering what I might do for an encore after it was published, when a curious e-mail message showed up in my in-box. The message read:

T". Townsend Brown was another inventor who is forgotten and swept under the rug. .He died on Catalina Island around 1985.

Science in the late 50s said what he did was against physical law, yet the government classified his work. A bunch of government contractors both American and foreign have been working on it ever since.

So where did all the R&D go? If you go out in the desert about 125 miles south west of Las Vegas at night you will see an object flying around in the distance with a bluish haze around it. That’s where it went. Also Sharper Image is selling an air purifier on cable TV for $60. He never collected the royalties for that either. " ................................................................

The message was unsigned. The only hint of the sender’s identity was his e-mail address. But I took the bait, and before I knew it I was hooked on a remarkable tale, and found myself wandering off on a twisted journey, a compulsive quest to learn about and tell the story of one of the most remarkable unheralded men of the Twentieth Century."

I understand that the person ( Greetings Janoshek) who sent you might not in actuality be an active Caroline member, but then, how do we even know what that is.? Elizabeth

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:21 pm
by flowperson
Hello All:
Paul, first thanks for placing the Caroline Group information all in one locus on your site. It makes things much more sensible to track.

We are dealing with things in this that go very far back in time, but not that far. It probably goes back to the foundations of agriculture after the last ice age, but not likely before that, for it is my belief that the Caroline Group, if such an entity exists formally, is dedicated to and concerned with the founding, development, and disposition of global human civilization.

The phrase "sons of G-d and daughters of men" is the operative phrase that I focus upon, because without women and their effects upon men, we would all still be drinking water out of ditches. That story is also Sumerian and is related in the Epic of Gilgamesh. That tells us of the friendship of the half human Enkidu and the royal prince Gilgamesh. Well worth the read. And, BTW, the pairing of brothers in many of the earliest biblical stories concerning the travails between brothers forms a foundation for our understanding of the earliest times. Genesis is replete with them.

When I started working on this stuff, Sitchin was one of my earliest sources because his research was so thorough, and while I didn't believe his assertion that civilization was brought to humanity by extraterrestrials, I did think that it was probably done by superior beings that came to the primitives out of the "blue". We seem to be uncovering the essence of why and how that might have/ will be done on this site.

Before there was Sumer/Shinar there was an entity known these days as Ubaid. It began to form about 1,500-2,000 years before Sumer started to come into being. They had city states, albeit smallish, complete with temples for worship and the like. They left no writing behind, that came from Sumer, but they did leave pottery and iconography. The statuettes that they seemed to revere usually have a humanoid/serpentine look about them.

Aside and apart from this, the oldest surviving statuettes from the Balkan region are of similar serpentine/humanoid form, which impltes a common cultural root. This is best recognized in a book by Marija Gimbutas, The Language of the Goddess. It is also important to note here that matriarchal family structures were very prevalent in this part of the world about 8,000-6,000 bce. as well as in Afican regions later than this.

The oldest legends of the angel/watchers also eventually came out of that part of the world and ended up predominantly in the Old Testament Apocrypha book, Enoch. Most of the orthodox forms of Christianity still emphasize the importance of angel/watchers to the story of humans. If anyone is interested in pursuing some of the earliest stories concerning humans you can find lots of them here:
It's an excellent website.

I'm sorry for the length of this, but it seemed to me some structural paradigms should be suggested every once in a while so that some of what we uncover may be placed in a larger context every so often. I operate on the basis of recognizing patterns in the information that I consume and then try to logically organize said patterns into real world explanations.

Contemporary artistic metaphors for much of this still pop up from time to time in contemporary culture, but sadly much of that even groaned to a halt about ten years ago. I highly suggest that whoever is interested in these ways of interpretation rent or buy the film, City of Angels, as soon as possible.

Oh, and Paul, that chapter that you wrote concerning Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia and the statue of the lion and serpent fighting each other is very important to the understanding of what I have written here.


sleeping bag / angels / TCG

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:03 pm
by Radomir
So, I assume none of our merry crew have ever followed up personally on this little tidbit: "125 miles south west of Las Vegas " If I had the time, I'd be sorely tempted to drive on out there and camp with a sleeping bag and see what I could see in the sky. Or is that the point, that you'd never be allowed to park out there in the first place? Also, I wonder where the best places are to go around the world to watch the real submarine races...or are they all too deep in the trenches for casual observers.

Flow: you get me right where I live, thanks for the comparative religion perspectives and movie recommendation. And for those who like to go right to the source, I will have to recommend the original movie upon which City of Angels was based, by Wim Wenders, called "Wings of Desire" (including a great role by Peter Falk!) also the German original title translated as "Heaven over Berlin." As we have been students of the Cold War era here, I think folks would really enjoy the drama that unfolds right there on the border between East and West Germany. It is one of my very favorite movies for lots of reasons, not the least of which I think is the concept of those who are or might be in and among us, but just vibrating at a different frequency.

And on the topic of the Caroline Group, we have a lot of supposition and material in addition to what Mr. twigsnapper has gathered above, looking forward to seeing it coalesce here. Thanks Paul for making a place for it. I'll just plug my two cents as I wrote it months ago: ... ight=#4234

Of course that was before we had additional clues from Mr. twigsnapper about the nature of the Caroline group, and also about its longevity. While at the time I wrote the above, I had thought TCG had formed around Sir William Stevenson in WWII, it is now clear that at the very least it was already operational during the previous world war, and quite likely a lot earlier even than that. We also have seen more evidence about the motivations and purpose of TCG since I wrote that post, and all of that new information has, I'm pleased to note, affirmed and amplified the fundamental set of values and sense of mission that we had already all sensed, gleaned (and hoped for) about that group in our earliest discussions.

Have a great weekend everyone.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:44 pm
by Chris Knight

Fort Irwin Military Reservation is about 125 miles southwest of Las Vegas and is between Barstow and Baker on I-15. If that is what Janoshek was mentioning.

It would be interesting to drive up there sometime.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:27 pm
by kevin.b
Shakespeare wrote,
For Carolyn,
If I could write the beauty of your eyes
And in fresh numbers number all your graces,
The ages to come would say "This poet lies--------
Such heavenly touches ne'er touched earthly faces.

All chefs strive to constantly improve, bring it on.

Paternity of Ionic Breeze part ll

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:03 am
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
And in case anyone has missed this section this is what I meant by " consortium". This is Pauls interview with Mr. Hill. Read all of it folks its really interesting!


"I was rather surprised at the next thing Mr. Lee said, though, of course, I should not have been surprised at all, for the incident he describes is entirely consistent with other excerpts from Townsend Brown’s career:

JL: He wrote up a report and went to Washington, and came back from Washington, and the most unusual thing happened. The project was completely killed [emphasis added]. He just closed up the doors, said “there’s nothing here….â€


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:23 pm
by Radomir
It is good of you to bring that post up again here, EHD. I was just re-reading it yesterday in the original thread and agree it is an important moment to pinpoint and to consider.

I like words, and I like to know their origins, so I looked up consortium, and it is really interesting that the concept and the actual word itself is so similar in so many languages:


Etymology: Latin, sharing, partnership, from consort- consors sharer, partner

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
consortium [kənˈsoːtiəm, (American) -ʃiəm] noun
an association, union, especially of bankers or businessmen
Arabic: جَمْعِيَّه، إتِّحاد، مَجْموعَة تِجارِيَّه
Chinese (Simplified): 协会, 联盟, (国际) 财团等
Chinese (Traditional): 協會, 聯盟, (國際) 財團等
Czech: asociace, společenství
Danish: konsortium
Dutch: consortium
Estonian: konsortsium
Finnish: konsortio
French: consortium
German: die Vereinigung
Greek: κοινοπραξία επιχειρηματιών ή τραπεζών
Hungarian: konzorcium
Icelandic: félag, samtök
Indonesian: konsorsium
Italian: consorzio

Japanese: (国際) 借款団
Korean: 연합, 조합
Latvian: konsorcijs
Lithuanian: konsorciumas
Norwegian: konsortium, fagforening, interesseorganisasjon
Polish: konsorcjum
Portuguese (Brazil): consórcio
Portuguese (Portugal): consórcio
Romanian: consorţiu
Russian: консорциум
Slovak: konzorcium
Slovenian: konzorcij
Spanish: consorcio
Swedish: konsortium
Turkish: konsorsiyum, birlikte çalışan şirketler grubu
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version), © 2000-2006 K Dictionaries Ltd.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:12 pm
by kevin.b
Words , words, words
New world order,
same sort of thing?
Good or bad?

What was that trick with three nines and the hotel bill, was it the nine card trick?
Will we fall for it again?
Falling and burning buildings.
They sure will have some aces up their sleeves though, and will have a global security force to impose and crush any who oppose.
That would make a scary book , wouldn't it?
I suppose an alien attack would really help them achieve such a thing at the moment, little green men .

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:23 pm
by flowperson association, union, especially of businessmen or bankers...hmmmmmm.

flow.... :wink:

gaining altitude

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:46 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake

I wanted to thank you for this particular thought ( as well as all of your other though provoking messages) but this one in particular. Every time I get bogged down in a nuts and bolts conversation, trying to figure every little turn of the nut... then there is this ....

"Im sorry for the length of this, but it seemed to me some structural paradigms should be suggested every once in a while so that some of what we uncover may be placed in a larger context every so often. I operate on the basis of recognizing patterns in the information that I consume and then try to logically organize said patterns into real world explanations"

Sometimes I just have to remnd myself ( as you have here) that the importance of " gaining some altitude" so that I can " get a better view" Reminded sometimes of the studies of crop circles .... of the drawings on the high mountain Plateaus of South America ... of our own conversations.

Sometimes I really think that the answers to our question ( and I mean ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS) are already here but what we need is a better overview. Thanks for reminding again that this is an ANCIENT puzzle and that " recognizng patterns in the information" is actually the most important thing that we are doing here. Thanks! Elizabeth


PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:59 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake

Thank you for looking up " consortium" for me

"Etymology: Latin, sharing, partnership, from consort- consors sharer, partner

And I think that just about says it all. If Dr. Brown were here I wonder if he would point to the word and then try to get us to understand that we have had an "intelligent partner" here on earth ... with us ..... all along .... and this book, besides telling us an interesting story about the life of one man and his family ..... this book is introducing that " consortium", demonstrationg actually how it interacted in Townsend Browns life. How it will probably interact in many more generations of lives and that somehow in this particular age its important that people understand this relationship better. Not something that happens over night but this book is part of that process. THATS the real story here. My two cents worth.

And Kevin, this is my answer to your post too. This goes beyond words. Beyond the "either/or" between the top of each wave that is seen, the space between each breath, the space between each heartbeat .. it is there. Between everything. Elizabeth