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"The Caroline Group"

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:16 am
by LongboardLOVELY
I read through all of the general discussion posts tonight, and discovered that this thread did not exist. Over this past weekend in Las Vegas, I listened to and participated in discussions with people regarding the Caroline Group. Two things jumped out at me tonight as I sit here and re-read everything:

1] We need a forum to talk about past Caroline Group members, and

2] We need to realize that this "Group" STILL EXISTS, and is growing and expanding.

So I submit this to Paul, Twigsnapper, et. al. Could all the links of the previous discussions of these people be put into this discussion thread, so that we can view the big picture?
Here's one of the threads, where Janoshek started a discussion on Ilya Tolstoy:
http://forum.ttbrown.com/viewtopic.php?t=290

And I guess any discussion about Morgan along these lines would belong here as well. I have made several observations tonight about these people who were inductees into "The Caroline Group", but I'll save it for my next post.

Paul, did anything come out of your research about Tolstoy, other than what is in your chapterette?

LongboardLOVELY (LindaB.)

the list

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:02 am
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
Paul and LindaB,

I do remember Paul that you identified some members of this Group you have dubbed the " Caroline Group" but I can't rerun it too successfully in my mind. I do remember a couple of the names though

William Stephenson?
Dr. Sarbacher
A.L. Kitselman

and of of course we know we are talking also about the inner circle of your contacts, Morgan and Mr. Twigsnapper (who I don't believe has ever come straight out and admitted to being a senior Caroline Group member. He has said that he " worked alongside Dr. Brown" for many years and was in fact the man who qualified Morgan for a position with the "Caroline Group" and trained Morgan in certain skills.)

Sometimes things that are obvious don't need to be stated. It is obvious to me that Mr. Twigsnapper is a high ranking member, whether he has ever spoken those words or not, but I don't expect thats going to give you much of a handle on other members, or the Groups modern agenda.

I personally have just come to the conclusion that you have to judge a person (or a group) by their actions in the past. It seems to me that the more we learn about "The Caroline Group" the more we will realize that they have served most powerfully as "teaching agents". Thats just my personal take on them though. What do you all think?

And again the phrase that Paul has adopted comes to mind " Waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Maybe their simple "agenda " is to just "nudge" us along a little. Elizabeth

Re: "The Caroline Group"

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:52 pm
by Paul S.
LongboardLOVELY wrote:Paul, did anything come out of your research about Tolstoy, other than what is in your chapterette?


Nothing more on Tolstoy since the earlier dicussion.

--PS

Re: the list

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:02 pm
by Paul S.
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Paul and LindaB,

I do remember Paul that you identified some members of this Group you have dubbed the " Caroline Group" but I can't rerun it too successfully in my mind. I do remember a couple of the names though

William Stephenson?
Dr. Sarbacher
A.L. Kitselman


Stephenson was mentioned during the body of the talk, re: having come aboard the Caroline in Nassau in 1933, which event served the purpose of introducing Stephenson's network as "The Caroline Group."

In the next-to-last slide, I mentioned three people "whose names often come up at these conferences who have also been identified to me as members of "The Caroline Group."

Robert Sarbacher
Donald Menzel
A.L. "Beau" Kitselman

Sarbacher we discuss elsewhere, though he continues to be an International Man of Mystery; Menzel was named as one of the "MJ-12" and is considered by some to be one of the fathers of the "UFO disinformation campaign" of the 1950s; Kitselman's name doesn't really come up at "these conferences" but his name has come up in Brown's story so I thought I'd just throw it out there and see if anybody recognizes it.

and of of course we know we are talking also about the inner circle of your contacts, Morgan and Mr. Twigsnapper (who I don't believe has ever come straight out and admitted to being a senior Caroline Group member.


The "Morgan" I quoted in the presentation was actually a "composite" figure. Some of the material quoted came straight from Morgan, some of it came from other related sources, and rather than confuse the issue by introducing additional source/characters, I just attributed everything I cited to the one "individual I have code-named 'Morgan'."

And again the phrase that Paul has adopted comes to mind " Waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Maybe their simple "agenda " is to just "nudge" us along a little.


I was pleased to see at least one of the other speakers reiterate the Philpotts quote, though he wrongly attridubted it directly to me when I was quoting Philplotts; Nevertheless, it's nice to see other recognize that our collective wits are in need of some sharpening.

--PS

growing up

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:41 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
You know, it occurs to me

That we have been struggling so hard to win the “keys to the Cosmic Ferrariâ€

representing others

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:03 pm
by twigsnapper
Now here is a thought to put alongside Elizabeth (which is always an honor)

What if you are not alone on that road? What if there is another intelligence that counts on you to make the right choices? What if there is a "force" that has lived alongside you as you walked this road? It has a , whats a good phrase ? "VESTED INTEREST" in the the choices that you make?

The tough part here might be that the kid walking along that dangerous road doesn't even know that he has company now (and HAS HAD for every step he has ever made.) He thinks he is alone.

Perhaps the kid on the road has sensed this company but has never been able to actually recognize it.

And what of the "company"? What would you even call it? Extraterrestrial might be appropriate if it would mean "even MORE of this Earth"

Hey folks what do you expect from an old man who has spent the weekend at a UFO conference?

But I happened to hear a line on TV last night. It was from "The Unit", which I feel a certain kinship to. The "Unit" had put one of its recruits through a battery of confusing tests of disinformation and mental turns. .... the kid saw through it all ..... passed and was accepted .... but it wasn't easy .... and the line from the older instructor was " You think I am going to put my life in the hands of someone I can outsmart?" twigsnapper

Teaching - Taught

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:06 pm
by Mikado14
Good Day Elizabeth!

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:
I personally have just come to the conclusion that you have to judge a person (or a group) by their actions in the past. It seems to me that the more we learn about "The Caroline Group" the more we will realize that they have served most powerfully as "teaching agents". Thats just my personal take on them though. What do you all think?


You didn't just come to that conclusion, you've known it all along, you just remembered, like when Daniel Boone was lost, he claimed he wasn't lost, just confused. <g>. Anywho, A teacher is only most effective when one wants to be taught. I have mentioned this before and that is the Knights Templar. I have read that when they were being ostracized, persecuted, eradicated by condemnation to death, etc, that it was only a small percentage of the actual number of Knights. The surviving Knights made it into Switzerland and established their "library" of knowledge for future generations. Knowledge, that ended up being their grail. When the dust settles, you will find that they are still around, influencing mankind. Is the Caroline Group this? Are they that or the rumured Illuminati? Are the Illuminati the result of a metamorphosis from the Knights? Does it matter? They're there whomever they are.

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:And again the phrase that Paul has adopted comes to mind " Waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Maybe their simple "agenda " is to just "nudge" us along a little. Elizabeth


Or for our "isms" to lessen and our objectivity to grow.

Mikado

Dolan's Observation

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:24 pm
by Paul S.
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Richard Dolan pointed out, we are probably the most rapidly expanding intelligence in our neighborhood (well, maybe) but still .... where are we going?


Elizabeth is referring to an observation that Dolan made twice during the weekend:

He said that of all the civilizations that likely populate our galaxy (to say nothing of all the other galaxies), ours is probably undergoing a period of the most rapid technological advancement of them all. He traced his hand in the air in a parabolic arc, illustrating that our rate of advancement is going nearly vertical.

To which I ad-libbed a comment in my own presentation: "yes, our technical advancement has launched into a parabolic rate of change... but we are still engaged in basically the same tribal warfare that has afflicated our 'civilization' for the past 2,000 years (at least)."

I will step down from my pulpit now...

--PS

Re: the list

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:44 pm
by Mikado14
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Paul and LindaB,

I do remember Paul that you identified some members of this Group you have dubbed the " Caroline Group" but I can't rerun it too successfully in my mind. I do remember a couple of the names though

William Stephenson?
Dr. Sarbacher
A.L. Kitselman



Here are a few more names to peruse:

Roger Babson
Glenn L. Martin
George S. Trimble
Welcome Bender


Mikado

There are more but one other that has been mentioned here before.

bidding on Stardust

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:48 pm
by Victoria Steele
In Vegas eh Mr. Twigsnapper? What were you doing, bidding on the old Stardust relics before they demo the place? keeping track of exotic women with flowers in their hair? Where were you sitting I wonder? Does Paul know you by sight? Or would he have even recognized you? Isn't a place like Vegas, with all the cameras sort of dangerous for a person in your "line of work"? Or were you "there" but not just at the Tuscany? You are not going to answer that are you?

One thing that I have noticed. Questions asked out of pure curiosity but with no clear "need to know" ..... don't get answered. Victoria

flies on the wall

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:05 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
Mikado,

You ae one sly individual.

So, OK. I recognize the Welcome Bender name but why was it important for you to mention his name and research at this point? I don't think that particular name has crossed Pauls path yet though we are probably quickly approaching. What inspired you to add his name to your list? The others I can see the obvious connection to Townsend Brown personally but Welcome? Enlighten me? Elizabeth

aether

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:14 pm
by Mikado14
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Mikado,

You ae one sly individual.

Elizabeth


Not sly, just ........ gifted.

Mikado

gifts and technology

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:01 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
Mikado and everyone,

I think thats the thing I notice about these "threads" and the conversations that we are all having with each other. We are trying to share technical and historical information but I think everyone involved perhaps has the feeling that there is something somehow special happening here also. Call it mystical ..... whatever you want. We seem to be "gifted" with people that seem to have another way of accessing that special "Library" that Paul mentioned in his presentation. Mikado for one. (and thank you again and in the future for what you do and are going to do Mikado) And there are many others who have stepped forward also. Thank you all.

And the more we talk about that "Library" and what it actually meant to Dr. Brown and what it means now to other members of that ongoing "Group" the more we will understand.

LindaB asked where that Library might be. Where it might be, as in a specific location and then she added WHEN it might be. Which opens the obvious thought that perhaps Dr. Brown had a way of putting this information where indeed no one now can access it. What do all of you think about THAT possibility? Elizabeth

Questions

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:28 am
by Mikado14
"You know Pete, in order to understand a horse, you got to learn to think like him"
Uncle Jesse


I hope that the significance of that quote is understood.

Elizabeth made the comment that Mr. Twigsnapper could be assumed to be a higher up (senior member) in the Caroline Group.
If that is the case, then what is Morgan?

If what Mr. Twigsnapper has said is true, then what is the impetus for the release of this technology?

Does anyone in this forum believe that Technology is all they are about?
How about Political Science?
How about Medicine?
How about a myriad of other topics?
Do all the above revolve around money?

How does the "Group" operate?
Do they operate in cells as to specifics (i.e. Technology, Medicine etc)?
How many to a cell?
How does the left know what the right is doing?
The Hydra has many heads but only one heart

Who is the maestro of this orchestra?
Are they performing a type of social engineering on a calibre not seen before?


What will happen after 2012?

Mikado

Mr. Twigsnapper, forgive my impetuousness and/or impertinence but I believe you understand that in order to find a solution, one must ask the right questions. I am still looking forward to a game of chess someday.

from my viewpoint

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:56 am
by Victoria Steele
Mikado,

I know that you were probably hoping for an answer from either Elizabeth or Mr. Twigsnapper but I just wanted to put my two cents in here.

Caroline involvement in political science , medicine,and you ask if it all revolves around money? Are you saying that their agenda might be just to become more powerful and wealthier? I just have a feeling if we bought that level of understanding we would be missing them entirely, and I think that you agree with me.I don't think they are "in it for the money". Boy, thats refreshing.

Money equates to power though. You can't get a whole lot done without it. Some people would look at those people on the Caroline and say to themselves that it was just another rich mans club, looking out for their own interests. But Greed doesn't seem to be at the top of their list.

You can't get much done without money so I figure they made sure that they had enough of it to be effective. Money for moneys sake I don't think made a difference to them. Maybe I am wrong.

Townsend Brown was probably different than other members. I think that he was different from EVERYBODY but my impression is that he didn't care a whole lot about having material things. He seemed to only want what he needed at any particular point. He seemed to be accustomed to the fine things in life and so I sort of think he just expected to have them, but didn't lust after them.

Like Paul has pointed out. When he wanted his daughter to have a substantial base of operation during her last couple of years in high school, and when his wife asked for a particular type of house he made sure that they had THAT house. Houseman, maid, chauffeur, big Cadillac with a phone in it .......... But I doubt that he personally attached his own self worth to the nice and expensive things that surrounded him at the time.

I wonder if there are "Caroline members" who only stay for a few years and operate on a limited level of "need to know"?. What would that be like I wonder?

Obviously Dr. Brown was in it for life and I believe Morgan too ... so you ask, who is their CEO? Now thats a real good question. How big an organization do you think that this is Mikado? Or are we looking at all of this the wrong way? Seems to me that we are trying to stuff the "Caroline Group" in a box and slap a label on it. And somehow I don't think thats the way this works at all. I just don't understand yet how it is different. Like you said. I probably already KNOW , I just don't see it yet. Victoria