PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Here is where we focus on separating the facts from the fiction, identifying what we KNOW from what what we DON'T KNOW about the life and work of Townsend Brown
natecull
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by natecull »

Victoria Steele wrote: Sheeze. Not a lightweight if even half of that is true of him. Victoria
Quite. 'ONE BEEEEELION DOLLARS' in the 1930s - or whenever it was that he hit that mark, maybe even a couple decades later - would have been a sizeable sum.

Memory bells are ringing, somewhere (was it in the book?) we've mentioned Atlas buying up everything in the Depression. But I'd forgotten. It's great to see this mentioned again.

Trying to parse through some of the gold-bug conspiracy rhetoric, I can see definite correlations with the stated goals of the Pilgrim Society - 'Anglo-American friendship' - and the centre of gravity of William Stephenson and the UKUSA intelligence axis. Possibly not so much a conspiracy in itself as a vehicle for association of people who share a common agenda. And yes, it's high time Skull & Bones got slapped down as the young punks they are. Dashed uppity colonials. To run a proper Empire you need more than a couple centuries and some coffee. :) It's breeding, dahling.

(Stan Deyo's choice of title for 'The Cosmic Conspiracy' keeps running through my mind. COSMIC in security jargon meaning 'NATO-level clearance', not US-only. Trans-Atlantic connections. A nice little pun, if that was his intent. Maybe I'm reading too much into riddles.)

What little I've read about the banking industry and the City of London makes me want to run a mile. A world inhabited almost entirely by predators, mostly busy eating each other. Some smart and some not. A fun recent book about that is 'Traders, Guns & Money' by Satyajit Das - http://www.amazon.com/Traders-Guns-Mone ... 740&sr=8-1

Frankly I'm rather scared that when the wheels come off our current economic regime, there will be some VERY nasty witch-hunting, and lynch mobs will come back in vogue. And when that happens, it's usually the wrong people who get hurt.

If Odlum really personally put Eisenhower in power, that's pretty impressive. One gets the sense on just how deeply and quietly the true (by this world's standards) sources of money and power run. But also how fragile they are, compared to the rest of the universe. It takes a lot of effort to be the self-appointed 'benefactors of the human race'. Like pushing water uphill. I'd rather let it flow.

(I've just started reading a somewhat mainstream history book, 'The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb and the Architecture of an American Myth' by Gar Alperovitz - http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atom ... 422&sr=8-1 - and he makes many of the same points Paul, Langley and others here make about just *how* difficult it is, even now, to get straight answers from the official US historical record about who did what in the White House in 1945, when it came to atomic secrets. Documents missing, a clear history of official lies, a public mythology miles away from the reality of the decisions made. By comparison, the kind of weirdness we talk about on this forum seems about par for the course.)

Edit:

Oh, and another thing: I keep thinking about pivot points. You can accomplish a lot by finding the still centre between two forces and just gently rotating, rather than trying to do all the pushing yourself.

1945 and especially the Manhattan Project seems to be the axis between two world empires: the end of the British empire and the rise of the American empire. I've never been quite clear entirely why. Great Britain emerged from the war bruised and bloody, but victorious. But she lost much of her imperial trappings. Why? Was it America having the Bomb that was the bargaining chip? Was it just money, did paying for WW2 bankrupt the state? Who was the bill owed *to*, if all the world's bankers are in London? Was it guys like Gandhi getting rowdy? But the monarchy survived, nothing much changed, just a quiet handover of power. And the triumph of Coca-Cola.

But of course, it's mostly the same people involved, whether on the UK side or the US. One global white English-speaking imperial hegemon falls, one rises. (A whole bunch of runners-up flame out and collapse, but they get integrated into the global system; Russia and China provide pushback; the Third World emerges and bits of it get actively destabilised. But none of them get to bump UK/US from the top position.)

Who was standing there at that calm centre, during those pivotal years? Who were smart enough to hedge their bets, cover both bases, stand in the mid-Atlantic?

We *could* easily, at some point in the 20th century, have walked into a world where the US and British Empire came to a shooting war. Unthinkable now, but didn't Europe falling apart seemed too, at the time? And the European Union coming together, didn't that also seem unthinkable? We could much more easily have had a 20th century where America went isolationist and sat the wars out.

Neither happened. The UK fell, the US rose, the accents and swaggers of English speakers changed a bit, but the centre of gravity of white Western politics stayed much the same for sixty years. It's like Jefferson Airplane becoming Jefferson Starship: different name, a few new faces, but pretty much the same core band and the same music.

Good? Bad? I dunno. But that didn't just happen, it was engineered by people like the Pilgrims and maybe Carolines.

And were there any quiet little side-effects engineered as well, when that pivot spun in 1945?
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twigsnapper
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by twigsnapper »

Excellent Nate.

All that you noted, mainly correct in my view. I watched the United States fight a bloody war but boom economically and many of her young men came home in one piece wanting a family and everything else that they felt that they had won. Cowboy boots and Jeans, The American version of "semi formal", Soon it became the American look, A certain brashness and vigor. Who could blame them? But the war left their homes intact and while everyone else suffered the United States surged to prominence.

"And were there any quiet little side-effects engineered as well, when that pivot spun in 1945?
Well, personally I know of one of those " quiet little side effects" engineered when that pivot spun in 1945 ... and I am still observing with great interest and awe the effect that Townsend Browns LAB is already having and will have on the future. twigsnapper
htmagic
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by htmagic »

Great posts, Linda, Victoria, Nate!

It's clear that Atlas was big back then. But are they still around? A billion dollar company gone? Mr. Twigsnapper, did you have any involvement in the Atlas Corporation?

Victoria, the post on the Pilgrims was especially interesting. So Odlum was a Pilgrim as this article implies.
The Pilgrims appear to be the Caroline group as mentioned by Paul.
http://www.silver-investor.com/charlessavoie/cs_may05_pilgrims.htm wrote:Plundering International Looter$ Gaining Riche$, Injuring Megamillion$ $ecretly = PILGRIMS! If this is your first read on this organization, I suggest you obtain the introductory background first by reading the December 2004 item in the Archives.
I was trying to find the December 2004 article in the Archives. I believe this may be it:
http://www.silver-investor.com/charlessavoie/cs_dec04.pdf wrote:On November 24, 1980, the Associated Press quoted Leonard Bernstein, a globally prominent musical conductor, as saying in reference to the Kennedy assassination, “We don’t dare confront the implications. I think we’re all agreed there was a conspiracy and we don’t want to know. It involves such a powerful high force in what we call the high places , if we do know, everything might fall apart.”
Interesting reading and I must take the time to review it...

MagicBill
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Rose
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Rose »

just think of us as LAB''s lab, Mr. T. Lot of brainsparking going on in here!

Mikado: I would guess you had a prolific strain, great weather, excellent pest control and sufficient nutrients. (Edit to add: and if you used electroculture, I have a need for your skills, here.<g>)

Linda, About the Gunn quote that came back to your Dad "when he first set up his lab." Somewhere along the line, Dr, Gunn changed his attitude or TTB would not have returned to the NRL/and or submarines, either, after Gunn became Tech Directo in 1934.

As I researched both Hulbert and Gunn, I came across statements that lead me to believe that some of their NRL work remains classified, even now. But all this talk of mines is reminding me that after he joined the weather bureau in 67, Gunn closed an old mine in Arizona and turned it into the largest cloud chamber in the world. I wonder to what purpose one might "divert" an old uranium mine?

I like that Canadian Atlas connection, Magic. Construction, again. A Golden Thread?

The term "The Builders" comes to mind and a quick google brings me to a masonic text which quotes this unknown (to me) author:

I am afraid you may not consider it an altogether substantial concern. It has to be seen in a certain way, under certain conditions. Some people never see it at all. You must understand, this is no dead pile of stones and unmeaning timber. It is a LIVING thing.

When you enter it you hear a sound--a sound as of some mighty poem chanted. Listen long enough, and you will learn that it is made up of the beating of human hearts, of the nameless music of men's souls--that is, if you have ears to hear. If you have eyes, you will presently see the church itself--a looming mystery of many shapes and shadows, leaping sheer from floor to dome. The work of no ordinary builder!

The pillars of it go up like the brawny trunks of heroes; the sweet flesh of men and women is molded about its bulwarks, strong, impregnable; the faces of little children laugh out from every corner stone; the terrible spans and arches of it are the joined hands of comrades; and up in the heights and spaces are inscribed the numberless musings of all the dreamers of the world. It is yet building--building and built upon.

Sometimes the work goes on in deep darkness; sometimes in blinding light; now under the burden of unutterable anguish; now to the tune of great laughter and heroic shoutings like the cry of thunder. Sometimes, in the silence of the night-time, one may hear the tiny hammerings of the comrades at work up in the dome--the comrades that have climbed ahead.

--C. R. KENNEDY, The Servant in the House.


lovely, yes?
rose
Last edited by Rose on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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htmagic
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by htmagic »

Rose,

I liked your piece on the Builders and it is lovely. And so is this:
1 Peter 2:1-10 wrote:Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
We are "lively stones" and we knew that Dr. Brown collected rocks and sands.

Now as for what you can do with a used uranium mine, I don't know. We know the calutron process could separate isotopes. I always believed that if you started out with a plasma, you sort of disintegrate or loosen the nuclear bonds holding the elements together. If you started with uranium, for instance, and added enough protons, electrons, and neutrons, you could pull off a stream of particles of any element you wanted, including gold. It would be the ultimate alchemists tool. Now mercury (Hg) is right next to gold (Au) on the periodic table. And with a little nuclear chemistry manipulations, you could turn mercury into gold. And supposedly, some have...
http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/gold.htm
The formula uses cinnabar, an ore of mercury sulfide.

Gold anyone?

MagicBill
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Rose
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Rose »

Magic, one of our dear friends is probably the world's greatest iiving alchemist. He has spent a lot of time looking at old formulas for the philosopher's stone of immortality and believes that pitchblende may have been the secret ingredient in many of them.

Living stone, I like. I'd rather be one of those than a mill stone, any day..,

rose
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htmagic
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by htmagic »

Rose wrote:Magic, one of our dear friends is probably the world's greatest iiving alchemist. He has spent a lot of time looking at old formulas for the philosopher's stone of immortality and believes that pitchblende may have been the secret ingredient in many of them.

Living stone, I like. I'd rather be one of those than a mill stone, any day..,

rose
Rose,

Are you aware that pitchblende is a uranium-rich mineral with a composition that is largely UO2 (uranium dioxide), but which also contains UO3 and oxides of lead, thorium, and rare earths? It is also called uraninite. And U3O8 is another form.

I'm not surprised that a uranium compound was used in alchemy. And some myths have a basis in fact. Like I said, mercury (Hg) extracted by roasting cinnabar coupled with some nuclear chemistry could shift the proton-neutron-electron mix and transmute it into gold (Au).

The philosopher's stone was also used to produce white powder gold, an ORMUS material.

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/overview.htm
http://www.whitepowdergold.com/frameormus.html

When the archaeologists went inside the pyramid they found white dust (ORMUS gold) all over. Except they didn't know it was white powder gold. ORMUS materials are also reported to explode when directly exposed to sunlight. ORMUS materials are also reported to have superconducting properties and those that ingested it were reportedly shifted to higher vibrational frequencies and also have levitating properties. I believe the Egyptians knew this and so did Moses as he was raised by the Egyptians.
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/ormus/orm_links.htm wrote:The ancient Egyptians talked about the "white powder of gold." They have pictures on their bas reliefs of little cones called "shewbread." They say these little cones are white bread, and they also say they're gold. How could something be white bread and gold at the same time? Well, now we know. We've got the technology to make the white powder of gold and form it into a cone-shaped bread if we want to.
Interesting material and I wonder if Dr. Brown was aware of and/or studied ORMUS/ORME materials? He did talk about lighter isotope materials in Volume 1 of his notebooks...

MagicBill
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Rose
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Odlum and Teller

Post by Rose »

I did know about pitchblende, but not about Ormus. Interesting information, Bill, thanks.

The Odlum/Teller connection may have already been mentioned, but for the record; From
http://www.indianpalms.com/about/

Floyd Odlum
Husband of Jackie Cochran, founded the Atlas Corporation, and helped develop the Atlas Missile Program. He also owned RKO Studios. In the late 1940's he sold RKO Studios to Howard Hughes. It took one year to complete the negotiations and they were consummated here at Indian Palms. He was responsible for bringing many celebrities and dignitaries to Indian Plams CC.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower
President Eisenhower spoke fondly of the "Celebrity House," back then known as the Ranch House, "... the only place I ever had complete privacy."

President Lyndon B. Johnson
During his administration, he and former President Eisenhower jointly paid a visit to Jackie Cochran and Floyd Odlum. Ironically, both Odlum and Cochran were Republicans; however, they presented an 8" Stueben donkey to democratic President Johnson. This Stueben donkey holds a place of honor in the center of a second floor display case at the Johnson Library. It has been on display since 1971.

Amelia Earhart
She was to have occupied one of the ranch houses especially built for her in her retirement.

Walter Cronkite
On one occasion Mr. Cronkite interviewed President Eisenhower in the Celebrity House, concerning the death of Sir Winston Churchill.

General James Doolittle
General Doolittle took part in the famous Tokyo air raid of WWII and played golf here at Indian Palms.

Lowell Thomas
Mr. Thomas actually broadcast live radio from Indian Palms.

Dr. Edward Teller
The Father of the hydrogen bomb enjoyed weekend golf retreats here.

General Chuck Yeager
A close friend of Jackie Cochran and he was a frequent visitor of this site.

General Curtis LeMay
The former head of the Strategic Air Command and once considered a presidential nominee, was a frequent guest.

Bob and Dolores Hope
The Hope's were frequent dinner and golf guests of Jackie Cochran and Floyd Odlum.

Roz Russell
Roz enjoyed the Ranch's hospitality while seeking the healing of the desert for her arthritis.

Others who frequented IPCC

President John F. Kennedy
Dr. Billy Grahm
Nelson and John Rockerfellar
Madame Chiang Kai-Shek
Walt Disney
Gloria Swanson
Roy Wilkins
Bing Crosby
Phil Harris
William Demarest
Ralph Bellamy
Jimmy Stewart
Jack Benny
Robert Taylor
Hoagy Carmichael
Clark Gable
Louise Suggs
Babe Didrickson Zaharias
Freeman Gosden (Andy, of Andy and Amos)
George Allen
General Hap Arnold
Eleanor Roosevelt
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natecull
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Re: Odlum and Teller

Post by natecull »

Rose wrote: Floyd Odlum
Husband of Jackie Cochran, founded the Atlas Corporation, and helped develop the Atlas Missile Program.
Wow, so that allegation was really true? I thought that was just hyperbole from the silver bug site.
Some ego, to name an ICBM after one's company. Like if the British Prime Minister announced 'we are going to build a moon rocket and we'll call it Project Virgin because we like Sir Richard Branson so much.'

Dr. Edward Teller
The Father of the hydrogen bomb enjoyed weekend golf retreats here.

General Chuck Yeager
A close friend of Jackie Cochran and he was a frequent visitor of this site.

General Curtis LeMay
The former head of the Strategic Air Command and once considered a presidential nominee, was a frequent guest.
Hmm. Doesn't seem particularly like a person who's super-friendly toward anti-bomb scientists, does he?
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Linda Brown
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Linda Brown »

Nate,

"Wow, so that allegation was really true? I thought that was just hyperbole from the silver bug site.
Some ego, to name an ICBM after one's company. Like if the British Prime Minister announced 'we are going to build a moon rocket and we'll call it Project Virgin because we like Sir Richard Branson so much.'

Well ..... not quite ... though if Richard Branson wanted to completely finance any moon rocket we might have in mind I am sure that an appropriate name could be found to reflect that he was paying all of the bills. In Odlums case. Look at the long view. Without the missiles... there would have been no spy sats and communication sats .... no space program .... It was only because he was willing to foot the bill entirely on his own for a period of time that the space race was even reachable for us.

And if he was doing it for his own ego you would have certainly known that he did that, right? And thats not the case.... most people had no idea who he was and he preferred it that way. Linda
natecull
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by natecull »

Linda Brown wrote: Well ..... not quite ... though if Richard Branson wanted to completely finance any moon rocket we might have in mind I am sure that an appropriate name could be found to reflect that he was paying all of the bills. In Odlums case. Look at the long view. Without the missiles... there would have been no spy sats and communication sats .... no space program .... It was only because he was willing to foot the bill entirely on his own for a period of time that the space race was even reachable for us.
Yes, but that in itself is a pretty astounding claim. A fact that's got airbrushed significantly out of popular space and military history.

It's not in Wikipedia, for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_missile

It's not in the TechBastard Missile Site:

http://www.techbastard.com/missile/1950earlyicbm.php

The Federation of American Scientists, fas.org, usually one of the best Internet sources of hard information about American weapons systems and history, has no mention of his name. ONE hit on their entire site for an unrelated file.

The top Google hit for "odlum atlas icbm" is in fact Paul's book.

I'd really like to see a print bibliography on this point. I presume it can be justified and isn't just guesswork, but it's well hidden and will take some defending, I think. Because it's one of the foundations of the 'Caroline Group' thesis, which is pretty startling to a lot of people as to just how influential private consortia were in so-called 'public' works such as military projects, and lays itself wide open to claims of 'conspiracy theory' if we don't do our homework.

The PDF book "Introduction to the United States Air Force" http://aupress.maxwell.af.mil/Books/Searle/searle.pdf gives ONE reference to Odlum - Jackie Cochran, in her role as an important Air Force person.

Follow the women! Jackie is VERY impressive.
First woman to break the sound barrier.
First Woman to enter the Bendix Race, 1935.
Won 14 Harmon Trophies in her lifetime.
Set altitude record of 33,000 feet, 1939.
First female trans-Atlantic bomber pilot, 1941.
Supervised the Women’s Air Force Service Pilots (WASP), 1942–44.
• Served as an advisor to the US Air Force, Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA), and National Aeronautics Space
Administration (NASA) during the ’50s and ’60s.
• Set world speed record of 1,429 MPH, 1964.

Jackie Cochran was born in Florida into a life of
poverty, somewhere between 1905 and 1908.
She had almost no formal education and since
she was orphaned at birth, she had to depend on fos-
ter parents. By the age of 22 she was working at a
prestigious beauty salon and was at the top of her
profession. With money saved, she developed a line
of cosmetics, which would later become her empire,
Jacqueline Cochran Cosmetics. Her husband to be,
millionaire businessman Floyd Odlum, suggested she
learn to fly in order to use her travel and sales time
more efficiently. In two days she soloed and 18 days
later had her pilots license. Despite her lack of edu-
cation, she mastered flying in mere weeks. Jackie
soon bought her first airplane, a Travelair. She was
the first woman to enter the Bendix Race in 1935.
Jackie was hooked on flying and her taste for
record setting was strong. She set three speed
records, won the Clifford Burke Harmon trophy
three times, and set a world altitude record of
33,000 feet—all before 1940. With World War II on
the horizon, Jackie talked Eleanor Roosevelt (who,
like Jackie, had been friendly with Amelia Earhart)
into the necessity of women pilots in the coming war
effort. It was probably no small coincidence that
Jackie was soon recruiting women pilots to ferry
planes for the British Ferry Command, and became
the first female trans-Atlantic bomber pilot.
In 1942 Jackie recruited over one thousand
WASPs and supervised their training and service until
they were disbanded in 1944. She didn’t stop there.
Jackie went on to be a press correspondent and was
present at the surrender of Japanese General
Yamashita, was the first US woman to set foot in
Japan after the war, went on to China, Russia,
Germany, and even the Nuremburg trials. Flying was
still her passion, and with the onset of the jet age,
there were new planes to fly and records to break!
And she did both. Access to jet aircraft was mainly
restricted to military personnel, but Jackie had
enough connections to get where she wanted to be.
With the assistance of her friend Gen Chuck Yeager,
Jackie became the first woman to break the sound
barrier in an F-86 Sabre Jet, and went on to set a
world speed record of 1,429 MPH in 1964.
Jacqueline Cochran broke the sound barrier when
she was well over 50 years old. After heart problems
and a pacemaker stopped her fast-flying activities at
the age of 70, Jackie took up soaring. At the time of
her death in 1980 she held literally hundreds of
speed and altitude records—more than anyone else
in the world, male or female.
Who exactly was pushing the Odlum 'Atlas' empire toward the Air Force direction, one wonders?

Edit: And yes, the comparison between a Floyd Odlum and a Richard Branson doesn't really hold up because Branson celebrates his rock-star entrepeneur status (though his Virgin Galactic commercial spaceflight operation and his recent climate change conversion are the sort of things that make me think of him in a similar way). Odlum presumably was well known among people in power building infrastructure, but a lot less to the public.

More like George Soros, perhaps? But even he uses his name. Maybe it's just a different era, more celebrity-oriented after the 1960s? But there were stars in the 30s too. Like a Halliburton or Group 4 executive, maybe?

It stunned me to find out a few years ago that not only is Area 51 security done by private security, but by a British owned company! Aren't there laws against that? But apparently not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_4_Securicor

I thought the extent of private control of government functions (and consolidated into an increasingly small number of private hands) was a recent thing, but apparently the roots of 'privatisation' and 'globalisation' go way back.
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Linda Brown »

Nate,

Your take on Jackie Cochran was substantially correct. She was a force all by herself... but it certainly didn't hurt her to have Floyds complete support, emotionally and financially. It was he who encouraged her to start flying, and he who supplied the planes though she eventually built up a wonderful financial empire herself. She just flat loved to fly. General Yeager told me during that meeting in 1967 that she was the only person who liked to go as fast as he did! ( and personally I think that there was alot of chemistry between them, don't know how far that chemistry went but I think both Mr. Odlum and Mrs Yeager knew that the two fliers shared something very special that could never be matched by anyone standing on the ground.)

When I met Ms Cochran she could still not spell very well and had hired a Chinese secretary as a translator during one of her recent trips. Amy couldn't spell english very well either and Mr. Odlum was spending a bit of time with me grousing about that ... getting nearly incomprehensible letters from either one of them.... how important it was to keep good journals and write well etc... ( Hello Amy.... if you are reading this please join up. Perhaps you remember that week in April 1967 and the girl who took Mr Odlums grey arab out for a few rides?) I am sure that you might be able to add a few things to this discussion. If it is not a breach of confidence of course.

Mr. Odlum himself kept an extremely low profile. If you want to know more about his interaction with the race into space through the Atlas Company I suppose looking up the Symington connection would be the best bet. In his own words he is quoted as saying that this country owed Floyd Odlum an enormous debt of gratitude for stepping in the way that he did.

I understand too that Mr. Odlum can be painted as being ruthless and a tough business person, especially in his relationship with Jack Northrop. But look again at the times folks. He did what he had to do to meet production levels that were critical. Northrop at the time could not have done that. Later you will note that somehow things worked back around toward Northrops favor... especially the link to the wind tunnel tests resulting from the earlier RAND meetings regarding Dads work.

That meeting at the Odlum ranch was in the spring of 1967, before we even went to work at GTI ( which was controlled by Odlum, sort of)..... by November of 1967 after that fateful demonstration at RANDI was told that the " Project was being "shut down" and that I should go ahead and find my own life apart from it.

And now I wonder if all of that was decided while Mr. Odlum and my Dad floated around in that warm water in April..... just visiting ..... Linda
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De Seversky

Post by natecull »

Thinking about Major Alexander de Seversky's Ionocraft. http://www.rexresearch.com/desev/desev.htm

I know he's been discussed here before, but as far as I can tell from the search function, mostly in terms of the technology of the Ionocraft and its similarity to the Lifter, and difference from the tri-arcuate saucers.

Seems a little surprising to me, unless I've missed an important thread where this was discussed. And presumably it's in the first draft, which I've now forgotten (guess I really do need to talk to Paul and get a copy). Who was de Seversky, and what was his background? Any dangling threads there, or is it all known and sorted?
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Linda,

Thank you for adding your personal observations here. Lends a whole new slant to things,

In rereading what is up I found this again

"Odlum renamed the mine the Hidden Splendor, but soon after his purchase the highly touted vein pinched out. Local wags then dubbed the mine "Odlum's Hidden Blunder."

And I have the oddest feeling that this has a meaning that we are not seeing. And as was said.... should we really believe that this mine " pinched out?"

I am doing alot of " supposing" here so you guys who are looking for the hard and fast ( meaning tied down facts here) just give me a little bit of room. In fact, take this little offshoot rabbit hole with me if you want.

Am I wrong in assuming that the only customer legally for uranium was the United States government? I think that I read that somewhere. If that is so..... and the Caroline Group was doing something really secret ( inside their own organization) and they needed uranium for some part of the process of it, just exactly how would they get it. Think about it. You think that they can just "sign that stuff out?" Without having connections within the military? But that is so difficult. Better to hide something at the source..... right?

The name fascinates me..... "Hidden Splendor"....... renamed by Odlum himself.
and then called by the locals .... "Odlums Blunder" .... oh .... really?

I suggest that we have found the faint trail of something and it hooks right up with what Shanks participation was and what Dr. Brown was doing. I don't know why he would need uranium but maybe he did. What do you think guys. Should I be laughed off into a corner? I am halfway there. Just say the word! Mark
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Nate,

"Stan Deyo's choice of title for 'The Cosmic Conspiracy' keeps running through my mind. COSMIC in security jargon meaning 'NATO-level clearance', not US-only. Trans-Atlantic connections. A nice little pun, if that was his intent. Maybe I'm reading too much into riddles.)

You and me both brother, just maybe. But I don't think so. There are hints left behind for us if we will just see them. You would never get what he was actually talking about until you learned enough about " NATO level security jargon" ..... once you know that ... your eyes are opened enough to see the rest of it.

Sort of like this mine thing that keeps nagging at me. I could be wrong but didn't he buy that mine in 61? or earlier? Going to go check. I just am getting the impression that something horrendously BIG came down the pike for Dr. Brown starting in 1958 and extending clear through 1967, Notice too that even in Pauls book .... like Dr. Browns notebooks ..... that span of time has been ( with few exceptions ) sort of glanced over. See what I mean folks? Why is that Paul? MarkC
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