Chapter 43 - For The Good Of The Service

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Paul S.
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Post by Paul S. »

Chris Knight wrote:If you assume the TPX is a smoke screen, then it has the elements necessary for an urban legend - a grain of truth (Brown and radar) coupled with a possible outcome/consequence of unknown probability.
Yeah. What he said.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Mikado14
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Where?

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Elizabeth,

I don't have any information to offer right now, but I'll let you know if I come across anything that might be of use to you.

Mikado,

Yes, we use clay liners in sanitary (and hazardous) landfills as well out here. The EPA regulates all of those specifications.

Andrew
Just out of curiosity, where is out here?


Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

Out here in the most regulated state of all - California. It's probably so regulated because we are also the most litigious state as well.

I have a contractor's license with certification for asbestos and hazardous waste removal - most people wouldn't believe how regulated these things are. Job security.

Andrew
Mikado14
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tpx

Post by Mikado14 »

Paul S. wrote:
Chris Knight wrote:If you assume the TPX is a smoke screen, then it has the elements necessary for an urban legend - a grain of truth (Brown and radar) coupled with a possible outcome/consequence of unknown probability.
Yeah. What he said.

--PS
In 1975 and 76, I belonged to a group of people who were interested in Tibetan teachings. The person that started the group was named Laura.

Laura was approximately 60 years old. She graduated college right after WWII started. She went to work for GE as a Mathematician. In 1942, she was assigned to the Philadelphia Naval Yard.

She never called it the Philadelphia Experiment, it was by another name and for the love of all that is holy I wish I could remember it. However, I do remember some of what she said. I can tell you there are similarities to some of what I have read here but then there are holes.

The sad part of all of it is that I wish I would have wrote everything down but then she would only go into certain details for she claimed that it was still classified.

I pose this....If it were a hoax, why in 1975 would she be fearful of talking about some project that she worked on as a young mathematician? Secondly, I wonder if there are others out there who are still alive that might have worked there and are afraid to talk due to classifications?

Do I believe that something happened? Yes. Do I believe in all the hype? Yes and No, only because I knew Laura and she was not a person to lie or tell stories.

I bring this up because this could be an American version of Cargo Cults.(I will pause to give you time to stop laughing) ........................................

OK, now that you have caught your breath, perhaps that the story itself was created by common working men who in there own ignorance, did not understand what was going on and filled in the gaps with heresay and exaggeration. I give an example. I had an Uncle that worked as a carpenter at the GE Space Center in King of Prussia. There was a huge vacuum chamber there for the testing of satellites in the environment of space. He was convinced that it was also weightless in there when it pumped down. uhhhhhh...sorry Uncle Harry..it no work that way.

See my point?

Just something I thought I would throw into the fondue pot.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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King of Prussia

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Mikado,

Welcome to a VERY strange world here.

Paul and I are familiar with King of Prussia. It may be hidden pretty far back in his notes but in the sixties Townsend Brown had some sort of connection with the GE facility there. And that vaccuum chamber that you mention was his main interest. Call this a cosmic ha ha if you want but I suggest that your Uncle might have misunderstood what was going on also .... and for some reason this is all being brought to our attention.

Paul, are you watching how this is unfolding, what do you figure the odds of this being sheer coincidence?

All we 've got to do is keep talking with each other and it will all become more clear. That much, I have learned. Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: King of Prussia

Post by Paul S. »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Paul, are you watching how this is unfolding, what do you figure the odds of this being sheer coincidence?
While I've long since stoped thinking that anything about this enterprise can be reduced to mere "coincidence," I'm not sure what to make of this twist.

Check your notes, Elizabeth. When was Dr. B poking around that GE facility? Are we talking the 1960s (Decker periods) or even earlier than that? Would it corelate with the time period that Mikado's colleague was talking about?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Tula

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

I believe you will find some reference to King of Prussia starting in 1962. Skipping along the top of all the information we have collected ... there were mentions of GE in letters before the family moved up to the Philadelphia area in that year. Perhaps the proximity to Ashlawn was one of the reasons Townsend Brown settled for Ashlawn in Malvern.

Mikado, how far would you say Malvern is from the King of Prussia Center? I know that you are familiar with that area.

I'll look too but I especially remember that Tula had memories of his going out to GE at King of Prussia during the Decker summer of 1966. Might be worth re-establishing contact with her.

I find it odd that a very large vacuum chamber was mentioned since that was supposed to have been the reason that he went to France in 1956, I understood that a very large one was built there expressly for his experiments. Gee, ten years later he is back in this country and camping out at that luxurious estate just down the road from GE. Paul, you and I both know that Townsend Brown was never very far from wherever his "project" was. Commuting was not his lifestyle, even though he normally had a driver.

And that begs another question. Why was Charles with the family during that period of time? Why was Mr. Twigsnapper with Dr. Brown during the earlier vacuum testing in 1956? I think that there must have been something similar going on here, What do you think?

Thanks Mikado for that kickstart. Elizabeth
Mikado14
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answers

Post by Mikado14 »

Here are some answers:

Ashlawn is currently part of AEGON Corporation and has been for awhile. At least, that is what it appears, easy to check in the court house if need be. The rest of the estate was farmed with a crop of houses. The crop appears to be doing well.

In the 60's, the 202 bypass was not there, it was only a gleam in some engineers mind but was probably getting ready for construction. Ashlawn is located on Moores Rd., you can go to Sidley or to Conestoga Pike (401) hang a right to Phoenixville Pike and take that to 23 at Phoenixville and then 6 miles to the Space Center on the other side of Valley Forge Park. Total distance approximately 12 miles, total travel time approximately 20 minutes. By the way the crow would fly, maybe 4? If you took the back roads, it is less than 12, just have to get over the mountain and you are at the entrance to the park.

Next, let's see, Uncle Harry started working for GE as a carpenter in the maintenance department in the early sixties. He told me the story approximately in 1975, around the time I first met Laura. It is an eerie feeling to walk into that chamber for it is painted flat black inside and the first time I walked into it, it reminded me of the bridge on the Enterprise with the way the walkways were constructed.

Hmmm, Decker you say?, I know a few Deckers. However, don't tell. I enjoy the suspense.

Next.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Decker

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I won't spoil the suspense for you!

And Paul I am sure will have a few things to say about Mr. Martin Decker (who ran an establishment named Martin Decker Research Lab in Bala Cynwyd and during the summer of 1966 Dr. Brown was there.)

Not long ago Paul visited the site of the old Decker Lab and there was nothing there. A parking lot, some wonderfully old trees that had been preserved , but no buildings. Not a trace. The only thing that made note of Decker at all was a street sign off of Monument ave. (I think) There is quite a story there, waiting to be told.

But hey Mikado, anything that comes your way with the name "Martin Decker" on it, we would be happy to hear about.

And thankyou. Elizabeth
Mikado14
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awake yet?

Post by Mikado14 »

I thought that someone would have seen the connection but then, maybe they have and just haven't posted it. Let's try this again:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/monopulse_radar.htm

Did anyone notice where Dr. Page worked? What years he was there? And that perhaps his son has journals and just maybe have some info that could shed some light?

Hey Paul, are my nudges too oblique?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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common man myths

Post by grinder »

I was thinking about what Mikado offered. that maybe common man (yes, thats everybody) just "invented the whole Philadelphia Experiment thing out of rumors left behind from something they maybe heard about, saw,even, but didn't understand. So cargo cult like? we went off in our own fanciful direction.

And those keeping the secrets of what REALLY happened just stood back. What? Are they going to stop all these rumors, stand up and say "No that aint the way it happened?" I hardly think so! I think that it was OK for us to go in that direction. (Maybe the delay on the trail was needed. Back to Pauls "Would you give the keys to the Ferrari to the sixteen year old?")

So all that is left after the stampede has gone off in another directions are the little bits of trail, half hidden that seem to beckon those that can see them. "Thats not what happened, look this way".

So, is this book Paul is writing a historical "course correction" by that "other intelligence". Just a morning thought. grinder
Mikado14
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Re: Decker

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:

And Paul I am sure will have a few things to say about Mr. Martin Decker (who ran an establishment named Martin Decker Research Lab in Bala Cynwyd and during the summer of 1966 Dr. Brown was there.)

Elizabeth
Are you sure that you don't mean Martin - Decker which is a company and not a man's name?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Connections with 1966

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

For some strange reason the conversation seems to be focusing on Mr. Decker and the year 1966. Or at least thats what I have been noticing.

In response to your "Has anybody really noticed about Dr. Paige?" Mikado, please note that I did notice and in fact some of the things that came in my direction because of your post are the elements that are composed in this one. Its a strange process but I think that you can hang in there with me.

Dr. Paige retired from the NRL in 1966. Others retired from their positions. Paul has a list going of Mathematicians who suddenly left their positions, or in one famous womans case, retired and then was called back. 1966 is a pivotal year. And there are connections beginning to surface that only months ago could only have been guessed at. But Paul isn't there in the story yet and there is much groundwork to cover. Stay tuned though. It is all coming together and I thank you very much for your input.

And to offer another connection. Dr. Brown at that time re-established his contact with a man who many have considered his best friend. The mans name was Beau Kitselman. Paul has mentioned him before but you Mikado would have appreciated this individual. His daughters have come forward to confirm that he was indeed a genius level mathematician who was also interested in no small way with Tibet . He was fluent in the ancient language of sanskrit. And in 1966 he and Dr. Brown were spending time together again. So.... the main question becomes ....... what was going on?

Another question I have for Paul. What month and year was it that Wilbert Smith died of stomach cancer? My mind says that it was 1962 but I may be wrong. The thought went across my brain ..... if Dr. Brown met with Dr. Sarbacher soon after Smiths death .... perhaps it was because of that situation? Just a wild hare thought here! Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: awake yet?

Post by Paul S. »

I'm just looking at this for the first time, actually...
Mikado14 wrote:Did anyone notice where Dr. Page worked? What years he was there?
Ah. NRL. 1930s. Bingo.
Hey Paul, are my nudges too oblique?
Not this time.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Mikado14
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Re: awake yet?

Post by Mikado14 »

Paul S. wrote:I'm just looking at this for the first time, actually...
Mikado14 wrote:Did anyone notice where Dr. Page worked? What years he was there?
Ah. NRL. 1930s. Bingo.
Hey Paul, are my nudges too oblique?
Not this time.

--PS
Exactly what I was aiming at, the 30's.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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