Chapter 27 - A complete System

[Trickfox]

The only good thing about having to wait until November is seeing how much more material about Townsend Brown comes to light this summer. Elizabeth

You don't have to wait to long, because this golden weave will be one of it's talking point. The future is acceptance of this thread it's truth and beauty and dedication towards the spreading of good news. Not just hope but solid intentions to pursue constructive harmony.

Raymond

[H. Short]

I first heard of a submarine propulsion system using electrical and magnetic fields back in 1965, but not being a physicist I didn't know what field of study covered this particular subject and in fact in the ensuing years only came across a couple rare references to devices I knew operated on the principles involved.

This concept has always intrigued me and I often wondered who first pioneered research in this field. Now having read Chapter 27 and your quotation from Brown's proposal to the Director of the NRL, "Electromagnetic reaction --- Application to the propulsion of ships, the pumping of fluids, and the measurement of flow.", I know the answer to that question.

The specific quote, is where he refers to a "novel arrangement of electric and magnetic fields [producing] a powerful mechanical reaction on fluids." Which he described as:

"A magnetic field generated inside of and carried with the ship is arranged to fan out into the sea water. An electric current is passed through the water in the region of greatest magnetic flux between suitable electrodes attached to the hull and crossed the magnetic lines at right angles. A mechanical force is thereby created which throws the water in one direction and reacts to move the ship in the opposite direction, the amount of force depending on the magnetic flux and the electric current passing through the seawater. In effect, the electrical energy of the storage batteries is transformed directly into mechanical movement of the ship."

One of the simplest ways to explain what is going on is by what is called the Right Hand Rule, which basically says that if you have electrical lines of force intersecting magnetic lines of force perpendicularly then perpendicular to both of them will be a force vector - i.e. a force which produces motion. You demonstrate this by sticking your right thumb up in hitch hiker mode, extending your index finger straight out, then bending your middle finger ninety degrees. This results in all three digits being perpendicular to one another. One digit represents electrical lines of force, one magnetic, and the third the mysterious force vector that produces motion.

An interesting aspect of this relationship is that when you have two of the three in the proper relationship the third will occur spontaneously - this is a fundamental fact of nature. For instance an electrical field in the form of a current flowing through a wire will produce a circular magnetic field around the wire: 1) Movement + 2)Electricity = 3)Magnetism. Electrical generators change the relationship, combining movement with magnetism to produce electricity. The obvious third option then is combining electricity with magnetism to produce movement - this is Brown's "...novel arrangement of electric and magnetic fields."

It would seem today that, as you mentioned, this effect is part of the study of Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), a rather seemingly somewhat misleading term... Since the basics are so well known, straight forward, and simple, it seems that the old saying that 'the devil is in the details', probably holds true here. For instance, you can go to youtube and find videos demonstrating how to make a MHD boat out of a AA battery, a coin, some wire, and a piece of styro-foam. And in fact it will work, only not very well.

Oddly, not even sophisticated designs using superconductors and other exotic engineering techniques can seem to produce a usable ship's drive, whether in the water or in space. For instance a few years ago a Japanese effort spent millions of dollars for just such a surface ship - officially it managed all of 15 km/hr.

This seems a little strange, because the simple proof of concept design built forty years ago for perhaps a few thousand dollars, used a simple copper wound magnet assembly and a couple copper plates for electrodes. It seemingly wasn't designed for maximum thrust efficiency but rather to demonstrate how to enclose a vessel within the propulsion field. High thrust designs, I would think, would probably limit the effect to propulsions tubes with high electromagnetic densities. Even so, this proof of concept proto-type probably managed at least 3 to 5 km/hr in the ocean.

It used an electromagnetic toroid to generate the magnetic field. Fields generated by toroids are completely different from our old familiar bar magnets that create a field similar to that of the earth. A toroidal magnetic field has no poles, as the lines are parallel with the circumference of the toroid - in other words the magnetic field takes the form of sheaths around the toroid, much like what an onion doughnut might look like. The value of this configuration lies in the fact that when you elongate the toroid, such as if you laid a doughnut flat on a table and then pulled up to stretch it into a long pipe shape, then you have a very large area of uniformly packed magnetic lines parallel to the circumference which are easily intersected in a perpendicular manner by electric lines of force radiating in a radial manner from the body of the device. Just imagine a stack of wagon wheels on an axle with their hubs as the body of the device, the spokes the electric lines, and the rims the magnetic lines. The generated force from this configuration is then in an axial direction thorough out the entire three dimensional sheath surrounding the device where the electrical and magnetic intersect.

Now knowing this little bit of ancient technology look around and ask yourself where can you find a lot of activity, mostly secret, utilizing billions of dollars on electromagnetic toroidal research? The answer is fusion, in the form of the Tokamak toroid. Billions poured in over the years but no fusion. Interesting coincidence.

Since on your site, you have a link to the 'Sixteen Billion Dollar Boondoogle' which is about Tokamak research, I think perhaps this coincidence comes as no surprise...

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Welcome H. Short,
I wanted you to know how much I appreciate the time and effort that you have put into your post and to welcome any future ideas that you may have.

And perhaps the story of Townsend Brown will begin to interest you more and more as we get further along in his research. And you are right, coincidences around here come as no surprise!

Your comments on other parts of the forum discussions? Again your participation is very much welcomed. Elizabeth

[Paul S.]

Since on your site, you have a link to the 'Sixteen Billion Dollar Boondoogle' which is about Tokamak research, I think perhaps this coincidence comes as no surprise...

Interesting descriptions of "toroidal" magnetic phenomena. With this list remark, do you mean to imply that all the money going into "tokamak" research actually has some purpose other than fusion, that "fusion" is just and excuse for some other kind of research?

As for the various "silent drive" configurations, I do suspect that there is are important differences between "Magneto-HD and "Electro-HD" designs. But I'm not erudite in those differences to be able to say convincingly whether one or the other would be more likely to produce a viable means of propulsion.

--PS

[greggvizza]

I don’t remember seeing any of TT Browns work being magnetic in operation. Most of his work to my knowledge was electrostatic or asymmetric capacitance. The B2 being a combination of two of his inventions. Did you know that TT Brown invented the Electrokinetic Flame-Jet Generator? It can generate potentials as high as 15 million volts, by means of an electrode placed in the exhaust stream of a conventional jet engine. Send that voltage to the leading edge of the wing and the B2 is all TT Brown technology. The people at Wright-Patt refer to the B2’s propulsion system as the Plasma Drive. By using the word “driveâ€

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

What would happen if you had a generator that would supply you with 15 MILLION volts? Meaning, what sort of " field " might develop? Anybody? Elizabeth

[Paul S.]

... but I'm gonna surmise that, should that kind of potential be built up around a solid dielectric, it's gonna have some effect on .... the surrounding gravitational field.

That's my curveball, anybody wanna take a swing at it?

--PS

[grinder]

Elizabeth.
Didn't you ask tht same question last year? Seems to me I have seen tht question and I think that you are probably the only one I know that might ask such a thing.

I am not the scientist or the electronics person who needs to belly up to this bar with an answer. I just remember that you asked it once before. So did anyone ever answer you? So now, do you think it will work this time around?

Its strange to me that others will talk about how Dr. Browns "stuff" doesn't work and yet they consistently use such low voltages and then even SAY, well Dr. Brown SAID to use high voltages but ..... we just decided .... what .... that it wouldn't make a difference? Amazing idiocy!

And Paul, are you saying that because you KNOW ALREADY thast something really strange happens? I'll just bet!

Is there any one out there who might have the answer now? grinder

[H. Short]

viewtopic.php?t=110&start=15

Elizabeth Helen Drake 'A welcome': Thanks for the welcome. I've been somewhat interested in the work of Towsend Brown for several years; however, I never quite understood, or was able to accept, the explanation of the Biefield-Brown effect as given. Until now, the device I was most interested in of his was actually his high vacuum pump device, that has some other very interesting potential applications. But now with Paul's revelation that his earlier work was actually based on research into electro-magnetic (e and b fields) interactions and the use of A-Field vectors the importance of Brown's life and research takes on a whole new dimension. So, yes, I am a lot more interested in his life than I was just a few short weeks ago before I found Paul's site.

Paul S.'EHD vs MHD': "toroidal" magnetic phenomena: The use of a toroidal design to generate properly aligned e and b fields is actually not very efficient for simple propulsion since the outer fields get pretty dispersed. What the toroidal field allows is a simple design to produce a field which will enclose the entire device. Everything within that field will experience the same force vectors acting on them down to the sub-atomic level. This would, in an example of a vehicle, eliminate acceleration stress - basically everything inside the field would be in its own gravity bubble. So, is Tokamak research perhaps also about something other than fusion? I don't know, but together with the above and your ongoing revelations about what Townsend Brown's life and research was really about, it is... interesting.

"Magneto-HD and "Electro-HD" designs: I don't know either, but I think there is a need to be a little cautious when using the official nomenclature and explanations to discuss fundamental phenomena. Terms such as Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), are, as I mentioned: ".. a rather seemingly somewhat misleading term..." Electrical phenomena and magnetic phenomena are fundamentally linked together, and together with them is the force vector phenomena. Where does one leave off and the others begin?

greggvizza 'EHD vs MHD': "I don't remember seeing any of TT Browns work being magnetic in operation." And until Paul posted Chapter 27 the vast majority of us common folk who have followed Townsend Brown's work hadn't seen anything either - that is the whole point. But in case you missed the quote here it is again: "A magnetic field generated inside of and carried with the ship is arranged to fan out into the sea water." Also, as I mention above, be careful about dismissing the magnetic just because someone labels something as electric, or via versa. The three phenomena (a, e, and b fields) are linked at a fundamental level. The 'Electrokinetic Flame-Jet Generator' you mention also creates a magnetic field, regardless of whether the people who discuss electrokinetic phenomena admit it or not.

Elizabeth Helen Drake 'what would happen': "What would happen if you had a generator that would supply you with 15 MILLION volts? Meaning, what sort of field might develop?" Tesla worked with much higher voltages all the time. Would you want this field pulsed or static? A problem of course would be maintaining an independent static field of that strength. Voltage is a sort of tension or pressure and a dielectric is something that has the ability to resist against it and maintain the electrical field intact. At those levels you are talking about the charge, by necessity, being contained on very small curved surfaces. What you'd need for a dielectric to prevent leakage I'm not sure, maybe it would have to be contained within a vacuum environment. You might see some interesting interactions with whatever is in its immediate environment, the earth's natural magnetic field, and perhaps repulsion effects in regards to the negative earth. Are you thinking about 'warping' space, propulsion..?

Paul S. 'Just guessing here ....': ".. the surrounding gravitational field."
Well, it is pretty obvious that the builder of the Gravitor, and the 'Master' of Gravity thought he was onto something with his "novel arrangement of electric and magnetic fields.." It also seems just as obvious that a basic definition of gravity could be 'a force which induces motion'. And the third leg of the electro-magnetic-force trilogy just happens to be a force which 'induces motion'. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the implications, nor to see that if so, there has been a vast amount of deception and smoke and mirrors going on since long before Townsend Brown was even born. I worked one summer in the Bunker Hill mine which had levels going down past 3,000 feet. It could be that the Rabbit Hole you have found yourself in, makes the Bunker Hill mine look like my grandma's root cellar.

[kevin.b]

H Short,
Hello, how do?
Have you read through David Barclays ideas at gravitycontrol?
Most people have a problem following his comprehension and wordings about gravity, I sense you may grasp and understand his ideas.
http://www.gravitycontrol.org/projectunity.html
Kevin

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

And this is another question for the survivor the Bunker Hill mine! What if you are talking about a "pulsed" system? Elizabeth

[greggvizza]

H Short.

I do agree with you that electricity and magnetism are inexorably linked, and where there is current flow there is magnetism. I was just using a sort of generalization to try and mentally organize gravitic devices into types. Not sure it is a prudent thing to do, but I group them into mechanical, electrostatic, & magnetic, with subcategories in each for torsional. Electrostatic being voltage devices, and magnetic being current devices. I am definitely not dogmatic about this mental categorization. I know that in high resolution mode none of my generalizations are true; its just a broad general way of providing a bit of mental organization. I didn’t see any of the Brown patents using coils or heavy gage conductors with high amperage, or superconductors, so I mentally grouped them in the electrostatic category. There is even a theory that if you can eliminate the magnetic component from an electrical system you obtain a gravitic component.

I didn’t catch the chaper 27 reference to magnetic; thanks for pointing that out. Are there any drawings or schematics available for this Brown device? I have never seen anything of Brown’s that involved magnetics. It would be interesting to see.

I don’t think that the B2 is maintaining a “staticâ€

[Mikado14]

H Short.

Maybe Mikado can shed some light on this.

Gregg

Mikado will sit this out, but, when a disk is flown, outside, in the dark.....it can be other worldly.

Just an old memory bubbling to the surface.

Mikado

[greggvizza]

Elizabeth,

Why are you asking about pulsed?

It is interesting because a capacitor based system, that is arcing, is essentially being pulsed. The arc looks constant but it is actually a continual series of short pulses. Possibly millions of pulses per second.

GV

[greggvizza]

Mikado,

Why allow everyone to reinvent the wheel and waist all that precious time? If you have constructed a working disk, why not explain it so others can quickly build successful devices as well?

GV