What do you think gravity is?

It seems there are quite a few visitors who have their own ideas about one of the great mysteries of our universe, Gravity. Here's a place where all the budding Einstein's among us can wax eloquent on the subject.

Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Junglelord » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:04 am

FM No Static At All wrote:
Junglelord wrote:I am used to not fitting in and prefere that.
I would rather hang out with a herd of horses any day.
Thats how I grew up, on a horse farm, big farm no neighbour kids.
Just me and the horses, cows, chickens, deer, wolf, fox, groundhogs, beavers, etc.
I grew up beside a Provincal Park.
Maybe Linda understands that.
Horses and I understand each other perfectly.
I spent many hours treating professional race horses.
My ability to communicate is better with animals.

I have dsylexia, so I spell bad.

I grew up in Philadelphia, with lots of neighborhood kids.
I was not the one they picked first to play ball, yet I learned to play the game(s) well enough to be better than most.
Because I was the "good" kid, most of the other kids picked on me.
I too worked with race horses. I learned to ride them and eventually rode and won a couple of races. I still find that animals are attracted to me and I always have maintained a mutual respect with them. Perhaps it is my love of life, but that is philosophical and this is about science and character, particularly the science and character of T. Townsend Brown.

I do not feel that you are being "picked" on or ragged on because of your theories or ideas. I do feel that you are reacting to the inquiries and comments made by some of us, Mr. Mikado specifically, in a way that is without respect for his opinions and views, although they are not in opposition with your own.

For me personally, it is difficult to ask questions and have an intelligent dialogue with you, not because I feel your science is wrong, but your attitude towards others that question you, leaves much to be desired. I don'[t have any quarrel with your science. I offer you alternatives, not to show that my ideas or opinions are more right than your, but to allow you the opportunity to see things from a perspective outside of your own. If you feel I, and the others that question you, are wrong, show us where we stray from truth.

While I have yet to fully grasp the possibilities of time postulated by N. A. Kozyrev, it does seem apparent (at least to me) that what physics ascribed to the "dimension" of time may be all wrong. I don't know that to be fact, but it does raise questions which cannot be answered until we have experimental evidence. And that is what Mr. Mikado has asked of you. "Where is the proof?" Have you applied your APM to any experiments? Is there a practical application or device you designed that demonstrates the APM in the "real" world?

I personally do not have the time or the inclination to test each new theory that comes along, yet I remain open to new ideas and theories about physics and particularly about the creation and function of the universe. You will find that I have not eliminated any of your APM theories, I am looking at them and waiting for your to climb down from your soap box and show us why you feel APM is more right than other aether theories. Is that being unreasonable?


Again context is totally opposite of what I intended, especially the answer all questions process.
I am only here to learn, and share. I offer nothing "new". Just Reorganized.
I never said I was right.
People assume I think that.
I do not.

APM is not mine, nor do I have any contribution to APM beyond the fact I recognized that APM was a tensegrity principle.
I shared this with Dave Thompson as he was teaching me and would answer all questions.
I met Dave via Dave Talbott, Dave Smith and the Electric Universe Forum aka Thunderbolts.
I took three months to learn APM. I also had many other elements come together via my introduction to Thunderbolts and the EU. This was why they asked me to review APM. I was sent the book Secrets of the Aether edition 3 and did my homework. I presented that in my thread. Q&A Secrets of the Aether thread.

I figured since APM did not have a Q&A in the book, that it was good study tool, a contribution to maybe the fourth edition and was also my way of making exams when I taught Medical Concepts in college and had to write exams. The information is not any different, it is only reorganized. The request for me to redefine SI units is redundent. Request for me to explain Angular Momentum beyond my Q&A is really for the person to learn, as it is again a well defined unit. I can only say that the definitions are not changed in any way. Quantum spin aka Primary Angular Momentum, is what it is. We think their definitions are correct, just mixed up organization.

I can only say for myself that APM makes total sense to me. I often see "definition" as the first stumbling block to this model. The next stumbling block is "proof". If you learned the model, then the proof is what we all believe in the first place. It is SI units. The definitions do not change. It is accepted science based on accepted measurments of quantum size.

This is then the new starting place to organize the Dimensions, Constants, Units, Measurements.
Quantum Constant, become Quantum Structure via quantum measurements from quantum units via quantum dimensions.

This is important to me as I worked 15 years with a structure and function model that used gravity as the tool.
Structure and function cannot be seperated. Tensegrity is the principle of fascial tissue, virus, matter.
I am a second generation student of Fuller. Synergetics is comparative to APM. Structure is the key to all knowledge.
Thats my opinion. Since APM is the first Quantum Structure Model, I am very interested in how it gives me everything I was looking for in a TOE.

Animals are my favorite study. I am a life long naturalist. I have spent years observing and learning many things by watching Nature. The Science of Bird Song is a favorite study of mine. I have had the pleasure of owing two horses and having a total of 6 to 10 horses on the farm. Working with horses in an orthopedic sense is a experience that transcends almost all things I have experienced. The connection to healing and manuel therapy via a tensegrity model is very convincing when treating a horse. A horse does not have a placebo effect.
:wink:
Cheers
Last edited by Junglelord on Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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One...more...time

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:13 am

Junglelord wrote:I can only say for myself that APM makes total sense to me. I often see "definition" as the first stumbling block to this model. The next stumbling block is "proof". If you learned the model, then the proof is what we all believe in the first place. It is SI units. The definitions do not change. It is accepted science based on accepted measurments of quantum size.

This is then the new starting place to organize the Dimensions, Constants, Units, Measurements.
Quantum Constant, become Quantum Structure via quantum measurements from quantum units via quantum dimensions.


Mr. Junglelord,

One more time, I am asking this question but am rewording it.

What does "SI" stand for in the above quote from your post?

Mikado
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Junglelord » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:18 am

Hi Mikado
SI Units = International System of Units.
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/
A recognized system of measurements.

I figured everyone knew what that was...like saying USA.
Sorry.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla

Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby FM No Static At All » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:28 am

To Everyone,
While I do not claim to know much about physics and mathematics, I am well versed in making things work. Fundamentally, we have an excellent group, with new excellence lurking and occasionally making themselves known. It is my experience that coming from a place of love, understanding and tolerance does work, regardless of the goals or the challenges to reach them.

We have discussed in other threads, particularly the Hidden, But Why? thread, how technology that can make us energy independent, provide free electric to the entire planet, was kept secret. Some think it is because of greed, and others feel that that kind of energy will be used to build weapons of planetary destructive capabilities. My personal feeling is that both are true to some extent. But that is all true because of how we see the world, and how we operate in it.

The good news is, we can choose at any moment to operate from love, and the entire world will change before our eyes. We will no longer see, "Them and Us" but we see all living things, and are grateful and appreciate the gift of life and our connection to creation. It doesn't cost money, you don't have to relocate to a mountain monastery. You don't even have to learn a prayer or mantra, or accept any dogma as the true gospel. It's a simple process of choosing love as your guide, and trust your intuitive senses.

As I listened to Barack Obama with Tom Brokaw today on Meet The Press, it amazed me how much different I see him now, than when he was a nominee. And each time I listen to what he says, I hear more realness, more love for humanity, more compassion for others, and more resolve that is all positive, and echos with a loud, "go forth!"

I have chosen to see the world as a place where I can give love freely, and know that it will touch the lives of others in ways that I cannot imagine. And the more of us that choose to participate in life with such emotion, will surely change the world for the benefit of all. Well, not all, since those that want to be greedy and selfish will find less people willing to participate in their game.

I also feel that if we as a planet can demonstrate such caring and sharing, the technologies to make more possible will become known to us.

Fred a.k.a.
FM - No Static At All
'The only reason some people get lost in thought is because its unfamiliar territory.'

http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Junglelord » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:55 am

In the spirit of love, I encourage self teaching.
I try to use goolge and the net to my advantage.
SI Units via goolge is instant answer.
I try to use my brain, heart, gut, and some inspiration to come to a conclusion about what is "special".
I try to use google to keep forum questions within usefull constraints.
Time is precious, google is wide open.
Self teaching is important.
I have not the time to answer many questions.
Nor do I bring anything new.
I simply bring a possible reorganized approach.

Once the basic self teaching is done, I would be glad to answer questions based on how APM relates to the other things I say it relates to like this forum, Wilbert Smith, Blaze Labs, TreeIncarnation, Electric Universe, Synergetics, Einstein, Tesla, and hopefully Mr Brown and the B/B Effect.

Dave Thompson has not endorsed these comparisons. He does however say I do understand APM.
These are my own contributions to a gathering of Comparative Methodology. I speak only for myself.
I offer nothing of my own, except the embedded relationships of each of these views.
I believe it is like looking into a multifacted diamond. That is just like Ed Whitten saying that 5 string theorys was just five ways of seeing the same thing from different perspectives.

I am not saying it is right, or perfect, just to me it is very Elegant in my mind how these things relate.
Cheers.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla

Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:23 am

Junglelord wrote:I can only say for myself that APM makes total sense to me. I often see "definition" as the first stumbling block to this model. The next stumbling block is "proof". If you learned the model, then the proof is what we all believe in the first place. It is SI units. The definitions do not change. It is accepted science based on accepted measurments of quantum size..

Junglelord wrote: Hi Mikado
SI Units = International System of Units.
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/
A recognized system of measurements.

I figured everyone knew what that was...like saying USA.
Sorry.


Yes, you figured correctly.

Now my next question -

Junglelord wrote:This is then the new starting place to organize the Dimensions, Constants, Units, Measurements.
Quantum Constant, become Quantum Structure via quantum measurements from quantum units via quantum dimensions.


What are the units as set forth by the Le Système International d'Unités for each of the above? Pretend we're in Canada and not the US since they have not adopted it.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby wdavidb » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:32 am

What a place to drop in on this thread, eh?

Gravity, what is it?

Electrons, gravitons, photons, wow and time too, which makes quite a mix.

How about viewing gravity as a response, dynamic response, rather than as a force or a thing itself.

This is probably why so many believe gravity control is impossible, because they think gravity is the thing or force that has to be controlled. Actually it is or would be impossible to affect gravity directly. If gravity is in fact a dynamic response something else controls the gravitational response and that something else very well could be the underlying force of universe; such as the aether.

The trick then would be to control the underlying force affecting a gravitational response, which brings us to an interesting point.

Are we sure we actually understand what space is?

We certainly don't seem to know what time is and if you think about that for a bit you might realize that the two go hand in hand. If you don't know what time is how could you possibly know what space is, in relation to how it is structured and how it functions?

The frustration for many I believe is due to too many secrets and far too many classified files leaving the majority to struggle with warmed up left-overs.

So when we ask what gravity is we are at a slight disadvantage to be sure, because if it was all neatly presented in its entirety I am sure we would not need to ask the question. Unfortunately it is not completely explained in any academic text book regardless of how many letters the author might have after their name.

Gravity is a mystery to end all mysteries. We tend to see the effect and jump to the conclusion that the effect is actually the cause, but its not. The cause is the mystery and that is what the question is really asking.

What causes gravity and it certainly is not mass, as mass is simply another effect?

And while we're on the subject of gravity you might find http://www.gravitycontrol.org of some interest.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:36 pm

David! Nice to see you are still on this side of the grass! In other words, long time no see.


wdavidb wrote:How about viewing gravity as a response, dynamic response, rather than as a force or a thing itself.


Now David, you might want to sit down......couldn't agree more!

wdavidb wrote:This is probably why so many believe gravity control is impossible, because they think gravity is the thing or force that has to be controlled. Actually it is or would be impossible to affect gravity directly. If gravity is in fact a dynamic response something else controls the gravitational response and that something else very well could be the underlying force of universe; such as the aether.


ABSO - FREAKIN' - LUTELY!!!!


wdavidb wrote: Are we sure we actually understand what space is?

We certainly don't seem to know what time is and if you think about that for a bit you might realize that the two go hand in hand. If you don't know what time is how could you possibly know what space is, in relation to how it is structured and how it functions?


But David, that is the fun of the quest. To find out what it is, perhaps as we find some simple answers the other more complex ones will come to the surface...but then...there may be even more mysteries....never a dull moment.

wdavidb wrote: So when we ask what gravity is we are at a slight disadvantage to be sure, because if it was all neatly presented in its entirety I am sure we would not need to ask the question. Unfortunately it is not completely explained in any academic text book regardless of how many letters the author might have after their name.



wdavidb wrote: Gravity is a mystery to end all mysteries. We tend to see the effect and jump to the conclusion that the effect is actually the cause, but its not. The cause is the mystery and that is what the question is really asking.


Precisely, and if I may steal your thunder for a moment, I agree that gravity is an effect but not the cause, however, the tendency to look at it as "simple" cause and effect does create a bit of a problem in that the "cause" may not be a simple answer in that there are probably multiple causes and multiple effects with gravity as the result. One.....step.....at.....a.....time.

wdavidb wrote:What causes gravity and it certainly is not mass, as mass is simply another effect?


Ah, the finish with a question mark...

David, I have really enjoyed your post, you said a lot.

Mikado
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby greggvizza » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:56 pm

I agree, it is refreshing to hear someone finally speaking our language.

What causes magnetism? What causes electricity?

The answers to those two questions may be helpful in the quest for the cause of gravity. Not saying that they are the same though, just that the understanding of the other two may aid in understanding.

GV
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby greggvizza » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:05 pm

Mikado14 wrote:Precisely, and if I may steal your thunder for a moment, I agree that gravity is an effect but not the cause, however, the tendency to look at it as "simple" cause and effect does create a bit of a problem in that the "cause" may not be a simple answer in that there are probably multiple causes and multiple effects with gravity as the result. One.....step.....at.....a.....time.

Just like magnetism can be demonstrated by multiple means, such as electrical current in a wire or by a chunk of loadstone.

GV
Last edited by greggvizza on Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby Radomir » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:01 pm

GV said:
I see a silent gravity bike as the only hope for someone as torn as I am.


Bring it on! And gee, wouldn't it be great if in addition to quality suspension, the bike would land, oh, only when you wanted it to?

R.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby arc » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:08 am

wdavidb

I like your train of thought. Looking towards the cause as a by-product of another entity.
arc
Last edited by arc on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby skyfish » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:38 pm

Loop quantum gravity...


LQC has been tantalising physicists since 2003 with the idea that our universe could conceivably have emerged from the collapse of a previous universe. Now the theory is poised to make predictions we can actually test. If they are verified, the big bang will give way to a big bounce and we will finally know the quantum structure of space-time.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... tml?page=1

LQC is in fact the first tangible application of another theory called loop quantum gravity, which cunningly combines Einstein's theory of gravity with quantum mechanics. We need theories like this to work out what happens when microscopic volumes experience an extreme gravitational force, as happened near the big bang, for example. In the mid 1980s, Ashtekar rewrote the equations of general relativity in a quantum-mechanical framework. Together with theoretical physicists Lee Smolin and Carlo Rovelli, Ashtekar later used this framework to show that the fabric of space-time is woven from loops of gravitational field lines. Zoom out far enough and space appears smooth and unbroken, but a closer look reveals that space comes in indivisible chunks, or quanta, 10-35 square metres in size.

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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby wdavidb » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 am

Thank you for your kind words gang.

Loop quantum gravity, yikes!

A whole series of big bangs eh? Actually I think all aspects of universe exist simultaneously because you cannot separate the past from the future, as there is no manner by which to define an absolute distinction.

Both past and future must exist simultaneously in order for the present to even be possible and I am pretty sure it is.

The latest buzz, loops, is very much like buying new clothes, you may look a bit different but it's the same old you.
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Re: What do you think gravity is?

Postby kevin.b » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:57 am

David,
Ever so pleased to see the same old you here.
hope all is going fine with yourself and yours?

I am confident that gravity is nothing but a consequence of the opposite flows circulating each mass, and thus is at ninty degrees to the circulating flows, at any point where a local overload of either of those opposite is found, then the angle of ninty degrees to the surface will vary about that spot, hence people been shown apparently leaning, there are numerous of these near large stones in the UK.
It's all about field/s, and the interaction/s of each field about each mass with all other similer.
Kevin
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